Martin Canning

Match day discussion, transfers, and all things Accies

Martin Canning- Stay or Go?

Poll ended at Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:05 pm

Yes (stay)
4
11%
No (go)
29
83%
Only stay if his team beats Motherwell
1
3%
Stay if his team starts to accumulate points to make us safe by Easter 2019
1
3%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: Martin Canning

Postby Stevie Clarke » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:55 am

Tend to agree with Swift Frank on this. Sitting seventh at the weekend, playing Alloa, they got a crowd of 4,723. That's what a history of Scottish Cup wins and several European campaigns gets you. Credibility. Even during tough times, the fans still turn out. Falkirk are the same, their crowds are generally over 4,000. Accies have never done anything of note and while that's not Canning or Ronnie or Les's fault, it means our fans are perhaps more frustrated than most and at times like this, when we are for once regularly playing at the top level, even more eager for us to push on and do something no Accies team has ever done - win a cup or play in Europe. We haven't reached a cup semi final since 1979. The worst record of any medium sized club in Scotland. Morton were our only company and they went and ruined it by reaching the LC semis last season.

Plus, I'm sure Dunfermline's day to day focus is 100% on playing matters. Another reason why they are a proper football club.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby porcupine » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:16 pm

Spot on from both. Pars have a far, far better potential once they get their act together again for Premiership survival. They are a good exanple, however, of how Accies could sink into oblivion into the lowest leagues, being without the massive home support that the Pars enjoy.

We SHOULD be an amateur club, given all the amateur ways we approach things. e.g.

retention of manager with poor results record since appointment
lack of meaningful signings again this transfer window
last minute late signings, if any
pathetic communications
perennially out-of-date web-site

Any more you can add??
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby The Goalie » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:34 pm

porcupine wrote:Spot on from both. Pars have a far, far better potential once they get their act together again for Premiership survival. They are a good exanple, however, of how Accies could sink into oblivion into the lowest leagues, being without the massive home support that the Pars enjoy.

We SHOULD be an amateur club, given all the amateur ways we approach things. e.g.

retention of manager with poor results record since appointment
lack of meaningful signings again this transfer window
last minute late signings, if any
pathetic communications
perennially out-of-date web-site

Any more you can add??


Not able to accept credit card...has to be cash only ;)
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Yummy Fur » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:00 pm

This thread is an absolute belter...……………………

Good start by comparing the win ratio of one of the better resourced clubs in the Championship with the win ratio of the poorest resourced club in the premiership - These are small, but the ones out there are far away!

Then it got better with the arguments that Dunfermline is a proper football club albeit a proper football club who have been below Accies for 11 years now (often 2 divisions). There is no doubt that Dunfermline have greater potential, greater history and a greater support (see also - Dundee Utd, Partick Thistle, Ayr United, Airdrie, Falkirk etc...…………….) which makes Accies achievements over the last few seasons even more remarkable but yet still our support will argue that the BOD isn't ambitious or more interested in charity etc...…………. An amateur BoD, terrible signings, a clown manager, obviously any success is just luck.

Admittedly some of the things that Accies do is amateur but Porcupine's list is ridiculously one sided. I notice that 5 years in the Premiership, our unbeaten U17 side, 3 players sold on for £1m last season, low season ticket prices etc...……………. have all been omitted. Also, for a business the size of Accies the social media communication is excellent and should be applauded rather than criticised.

I was at a fan's forum a couple of years back and several fans correctly pointed out that the constant "boxing above our weight" comments weren't doing the club any favours, anyone that thinks that the constant talking down of Accies by a section of the fanbase and the constant unbalanced criticism (see Accies twitter feed for an example) will benefit the club are deluding themselves too.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby TerracingTomas » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Good start by comparing the win ratio of one of the better resourced clubs in the Championship with the win ratio of the poorest resourced club in the premiership - These are small, but the ones out there are far away!


Dont know about others but I didn’t compare the clubs’ win ratio. I pointed out that Johnston’s win ratio as Dunfermline manager was 47% a very healthy and respectable one compared to Martins but that didn’t save him from the bullet. The Board at Dunfermline have obviously taken the view that under Johnston they have come as far as the club can go and made a tough decision that if they want to progress a fresh managerial approach is needed. Our Board clearly are happy with martins' win ratio and yet not only has he failed in terms of results/performances IMO but he has also failed by another significant measure that Maitland himself quoted, providing a pathway for our youth to progress into the first team. Boyd, Mcmann and Want might in the first team squad but none of them are established automatic picks. inded Mcmann has gone backwards in terms of performances over the last 2 years. The last player to emerge and quickly establish himself in the first team in the last 2 seasons has been ferguson and we know how that played out. Oh and that very under resourced premiership club Livingstone have a manager with a win ratio of 42% Just saying. ;)
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Swift Frank » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:26 pm

Canning is a donkey.
Just Saying.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Bomber Harris » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:01 pm

Yummy Fur wrote:This thread is an absolute belter...……………………

Good start by comparing the win ratio of one of the better resourced clubs in the Championship with the win ratio of the poorest resourced club in the premiership - These are small, but the ones out there are far away!

Then it got better with the arguments that Dunfermline is a proper football club albeit a proper football club who have been below Accies for 11 years now (often 2 divisions). There is no doubt that Dunfermline have greater potential, greater history and a greater support (see also - Dundee Utd, Partick Thistle, Ayr United, Airdrie, Falkirk etc...…………….) which makes Accies achievements over the last few seasons even more remarkable but yet still our support will argue that the BOD isn't ambitious or more interested in charity etc...…………. An amateur BoD, terrible signings, a clown manager, obviously any success is just luck.

Admittedly some of the things that Accies do is amateur but Porcupine's list is ridiculously one sided. I notice that 5 years in the Premiership, our unbeaten U17 side, 3 players sold on for £1m last season, low season ticket prices etc...……………. have all been omitted. Also, for a business the size of Accies the social media communication is excellent and should be applauded rather than criticised.

I was at a fan's forum a couple of years back and several fans correctly pointed out that the constant "boxing above our weight" comments weren't doing the club any favours, anyone that thinks that the constant talking down of Accies by a section of the fanbase and the constant unbalanced criticism (see Accies twitter feed for an example) will benefit the club are deluding themselves too.


Well said fanny fur 100% spot on
Fat Alan has left the building. Cheers ta pirate
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby porcupine » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:30 pm

The Goalie wrote:
porcupine wrote:Spot on from both. Pars have a far, far better potential once they get their act together again for Premiership survival. They are a good exanple, however, of how Accies could sink into oblivion into the lowest leagues, being without the massive home support that the Pars enjoy.

We SHOULD be an amateur club, given all the amateur ways we approach things. e.g.

retention of manager with poor results record since appointment
lack of meaningful signings again this transfer window
last minute late signings, if any
pathetic communications
perennially out-of-date web-site

Any more you can add??


Not able to accept credit card...has to be cash only ;)


Good additional point, TG,
And, of course, the way we keep control of that cash, or not......phishing scam loss £697257 :oops:

Don't dispute there have been some good sales, but these classy players would have been sold by any club who had them registered, and possibly for for money given their potential e.g. Docherty and Ferguson,

And the thread has gone off topic (Martin Canning). :o Over to you Admin. ;)
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Yummy Fur » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:31 pm

TerracingTomas wrote:
Good start by comparing the win ratio of one of the better resourced clubs in the Championship with the win ratio of the poorest resourced club in the premiership - These are small, but the ones out there are far away!


Dont know about others but I didn’t compare the clubs’ win ratio. I pointed out that Johnston’s win ratio as Dunfermline manager was 47% a very healthy and respectable one compared to Martins but that didn’t save him from the bullet. The Board at Dunfermline have obviously taken the view that under Johnston they have come as far as the club can go and made a tough decision that if they want to progress a fresh managerial approach is needed. Our Board clearly are happy with martins' win ratio and yet not only has he failed in terms of results/performances IMO but he has also failed by another significant measure that Maitland himself quoted, providing a pathway for our youth to progress into the first team. Boyd, Mcmann and Want might in the first team squad but none of them are established automatic picks. inded Mcmann has gone backwards in terms of performances over the last 2 years. The last player to emerge and quickly establish himself in the first team in the last 2 seasons has been ferguson and we know how that played out. Oh and that very under resourced premiership club Livingstone have a manager with a win ratio of 42% Just saying. ;)



Whether you compare the club's win ratio or the respective manager's win ratio the point remains the same that it's an unfair comparison. Johnston's win ratio has a full season in the first division with emphatically the largest budget and then the rest of his management time spent in the Championship as one of the better resourced clubs. Canning's win ratio is almost 5 seasons in the Premiership with most of that with a significant financial disadvantage. In fairness finding a decent comparison is difficult, no other Accies manager has ever kept the club in the top division for so long. In fact it's hard to find another club in Europe who has had such a long stay in their elite division despite such a severe financial disadvantage to the other clubs. Livi's first season has been excepional but I'd be stunned if they were still playing in the Premiership in 3 or 4 seasons. Like Accies they will lose their top players and find it difficult to replace.

Your point about a pathway from youth to the first team is interesting too considering that Canning played a big part in Devlin (made him captain), Docherty (made him a first team regular) and Ferguson (made him a first team regular) all whom have been sold for decent transfer fees in the last 12 months. It was also nice to see Templeton get a run out against Man City last night, a player who no-one would touch but whose career has been turned around - nothing to do with Canning though!

I'm as frustrated as anyone with this season to date and have little doubt that Canning is fortunate to get the opportunity to turn it around but the one sided Canning Clownzo chat is ridiculous and there has been plenty of successes as well as disappointments.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Yummy Fur » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:33 pm

Bomber Harris wrote:Well said fanny fur 100% spot on


Wonderful retort, debate isn't dead after all.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby PrideOfLanarkshire » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:37 pm

Yummy Fur wrote:
TerracingTomas wrote:
Good start by comparing the win ratio of one of the better resourced clubs in the Championship with the win ratio of the poorest resourced club in the premiership - These are small, but the ones out there are far away!


Dont know about others but I didn’t compare the clubs’ win ratio. I pointed out that Johnston’s win ratio as Dunfermline manager was 47% a very healthy and respectable one compared to Martins but that didn’t save him from the bullet. The Board at Dunfermline have obviously taken the view that under Johnston they have come as far as the club can go and made a tough decision that if they want to progress a fresh managerial approach is needed. Our Board clearly are happy with martins' win ratio and yet not only has he failed in terms of results/performances IMO but he has also failed by another significant measure that Maitland himself quoted, providing a pathway for our youth to progress into the first team. Boyd, Mcmann and Want might in the first team squad but none of them are established automatic picks. inded Mcmann has gone backwards in terms of performances over the last 2 years. The last player to emerge and quickly establish himself in the first team in the last 2 seasons has been ferguson and we know how that played out. Oh and that very under resourced premiership club Livingstone have a manager with a win ratio of 42% Just saying. ;)



Whether you compare the club's win ratio or the respective manager's win ratio the point remains the same that it's an unfair comparison. Johnston's win ratio has a full season in the first division with emphatically the largest budget and then the rest of his management time spent in the Championship as one of the better resourced clubs. Canning's win ratio is almost 5 seasons in the Premiership with most of that with a significant financial disadvantage. In fairness finding a decent comparison is difficult, no other Accies manager has ever kept the club in the top division for so long. In fact it's hard to find another club in Europe who has had such a long stay in their elite division despite such a severe financial disadvantage to the other clubs.


SD Eibar in the spanish La Liga, easy enough to find.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Yummy Fur » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:49 pm

PrideOfLanarkshire wrote:SD Eibar in the spanish La Liga, easy enough to find.



It's a decent shout although the TV deal for La Liga somewhat evens out the financial disparity compared to the Scottish Premiership where such a large percentage of income is through gate receipts.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Swift Frank » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Men Sheds and helping Junkies and alkies are the priority at our Charity Shop FC.
What's everyone getting excited about?
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby TerracingTomas » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:27 am

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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Swift Frank » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:37 pm

Eh,let me think for a moment.
Nah.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Reidy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 am

Canning is not getting that the fans are less frustrated with the fact the team are losing a lot ( lets face it we have got used to it over the years) than the manner in which we are losing. In most games we don't look like we know how to win. He talks about the hard work of the p[layers but its not evident on the field. Clueless negative tactics.
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Re: Martin Canning

Postby Swift Frank » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:50 pm

Canning is not getting that we are not interested in anything but zero tolerance.
CANNING OUT.
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