Accies v Celtic

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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:13 pm

Willie Wastle wrote:
Alty accie wrote:The number of empty seats in the home end was EMBARRASSING.

Canning must go now. :roll:

I don't share this focus on the size of the crowd.

Accies have always had a pathetic level of support. In recent years the club have tried just about everything to get more fans to come, and nothing's worked. I've accepted that we'll always have a tiny support.

My priorities are:

1. Winning games, or when we can't do that at least avoiding defeat.
2. Competing at the highest level we can.
3. Putting in good performances, so that even when we lose, we can say we gave it a right good go.
4. Playing attractive football - oddly we sometimes do that while failing to deliver priorities 1 to 3.

The size of the crowd's way behind those priorities, and doesn't begin to influence my thinking about whether the manager should keep his job.


You are, deliberately or otherwise, misconstruing the point about the how people view the size of the crowd. Its not a priority for anyone, but sadly it is a clear indicator that people are completely fed up and the things you outline in your points are not actually happening. Not one of them. In fact, we are seeing the complete opposite of all of those things. Regularly. If you think otherwise I'll have some of whatever it is you're drinking.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Scotty Tunbridge » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:58 am

Wille Wastle is a great troll. A little bit of happy clapping and every one is raging. Either that or he really is just deluded.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Bomber Harris » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:02 am

As the weeks go by I'm more convinced that Willie Wastle is either Ronnie MacDonald, Les Gray or the nutcase that is Colin McGowan. He his defo one of those 3.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Willie Wastle » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:47 am

In fact, I'm just the same as the rest of you. A lifelong Accies fan who just happens to have a different opinion from a few angry posters on here.

I sometimes wonder whether this is one of the reasons we don't attract more fans - newcomers are put off by the hostility of some of the regulars.

I'm not a "troll" - you really need to look up the meaning of the word, Scotty. Nor am I a "happy clapper" who accepts anything the club offers. I'd say my criticisms are more valid for being more selective. As opposed to those who go mental every time we lose a game, and seem to think sacking the manager will bring droves of fans back to the ground.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby PrideOfLanarkshire » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:51 am

Willie Wastle wrote:
I sometimes wonder whether this is one of the reasons we don't attract more fans - newcomers are put off by the hostility of some of the regulars..


Ah the classic blame the fans line, i have been waiting for that.

Troll.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Willie Wastle » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:04 am

Some of you really can't handle being disagreed with, can you?

A troll, FWIW, is someone like Swift Frank, who just posts to get a reaction. If anything, I'm the one being trolled here.

My controversial opinions include:

• wanting Accies to play well and win more games
• looking for positive things in the game
• being pleased that we've been in the top flight more often than not for the last decade or so
• actually supporting the players and coaches and wishing them well
• disagreeing that sacking the manager is the answer to all our problems
• not getting into a raging fury every time something goes wrong

I accept not everyone shares my opinions. It would be nice if that respect was reciprocated.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:17 am

Willie Wastle wrote:Some of you really can't handle being disagreed with, can you?

A troll, FWIW, is someone like Swift Frank, who just posts to get a reaction. If anything, I'm the one being trolled here.

My controversial opinions include:

• wanting Accies to play well and win more games
• looking for positive things in the game
• being pleased that we've been in the top flight more often than not for the last decade or so
• actually supporting the players and coaches and wishing them well
• disagreeing that sacking the manager is the answer to all our problems
• not getting into a raging fury every time something goes wrong

I accept not everyone shares my opinions. It would be nice if that respect was reciprocated.


Gee whiz, you really are the perfect fan aren't you - perhaps they should put you on the plinth when they take the match ball off it so we can see what we should aspire to. As for respect, I think you'll find that has to be earned rather than demanded, which has become a regular trait of yours.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Swift Frank » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:01 pm

FWIW, I have been called far worse in my time than a Troll.
Lol.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Stodmeister » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:09 pm

Willie Wastle wrote:Some of you really can't handle being disagreed with, can you?

A troll, FWIW, is someone like Swift Frank, who just posts to get a reaction. If anything, I'm the one being trolled here.

My controversial opinions include:

• wanting Accies to play well and win more games
• looking for positive things in the game
• being pleased that we've been in the top flight more often than not for the last decade or so
• actually supporting the players and coaches and wishing them well
• disagreeing that sacking the manager is the answer to all our problems
• not getting into a raging fury every time something goes wrong

I accept not everyone shares my opinions. It would be nice if that respect was reciprocated.


I appreciate you have different views and also want to put a positive spin on the current situation , we all want the best for our time , however unless it's not the manager picking our team then he needs to go. I know we're still in the Premier league but this is currently reminiscent of the end days of Billy Reid , when the football became dire as it is now.

I firmly belief that a change in manager and his entourage would make us improve on the pitch , we need a shake up badly it's all become a bit stale. Some of the new players must wonder what's going on , we are losing loyal fans and the atmosphere at games is simply toxic.

Let's put some current facts down.

Brustad is a far better player and target man than Bingham yet we have to suffer the latter's selection , is he simply being picked as he gets on well with Miller off the field??? Rakish Bingham is not good enough to play in the Premier league , he has pace apparently but in actual fact Brustad probably has more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredrik_Brustad

Imrie is finished , end of, reminiscent of when Danny McGrain came to Accies at the end of is career , great servant to the club but now a liability over 90 mins.

McKinnon does not seemed to have learned his lesson despite being captain , his discipline is appalling , your captain is meant to be there leading on the field not sitting in the stands banned.

Martin is always saying we go out to try and win games but that's just nonsense , he has already stated that we are not expected to beat the big teams , is that what Livingston think?

Look at the change is fortunes Kilmarnock have had since appointing a real manager , they were in a bad state prior to Clarke arriving.

This club has never had a big support however we have had a dedicated hard core who are now fed up watching the crap that is served up and are also fed up listening to Martin's excuses.

There'a buzz about the club for our under 19's so it just goes to show that if you provide the right product people will come and support the team , OK it's free entry but people are looking for positivity , none of which you get from watching the first team.

We should never be a beaten team before we get on the park but at times it looks like we are , we're on a bad run but it's up to the manager to gee the players up and get them going , I can't imagine Martin's team talk do that.

I don't believe Martin wanted the job at the time of Alex's departure it was somewhat forced upon him however years have past and he's in the hot seat, I have seen no visible signs of improvement in his tenure , in any other walk of life you would be out the door.

From last season we lost Docherty and Ferguson obviously key players also Devlin but he was injured most of last season and Ferguson only came to the fore when Docherty left for Rangers in January , maybe it's time to promote someone from the under 19's? What's happened to some of these players we signed e.g. Aaron Smith who had great potential?

With regards to not getting into a raging fury when something goes wrong then It's hard for fans not to vent their spleen when it goes continually wrong , you can only put up with so much s**t in your life , the last thing you need when you've had a hard week at work and paid out decent money is to be served up dross.
Last edited by Stodmeister on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Willie Wastle » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:10 pm

Replying to Stodmeister, but not quoting, because it's a long post.

Your key argument seems to be lack of progress/improvement, so I want to address that. I don't disagree with your assessment of any of the individual players you mention, or the history of how Martin got the job, or even the comparison with the last seasons of Billy Reid's tenure. And I do understand people's frustration, although I don't think it's reasonable that anybody's hostility is directed at another Accies fan who just wants the best for the club, and merely has a differing view of how that may be accomplished.

But to show improvement over recent seasons we'd need to scale unprecedented heights, at least in our post-war history. Is that possible? Maybe. And if so, I doubt Martin has the ability to lead us there. There must have been significant investment in the summer (another thread suggests our wage bill may not now be the lowest in the league) and we certainly brought in a lot of new players - hopes were high we could kick on to a new level. I suspect the Board made a genuine effort to recruit a squad capable of challenging for top six, and are giving Martin a chance to take us there.

We're not there, and it doesn't look like we're getting better as the season goes on. Say we win the next two games, and by January are competing with the likes of Motherwell, St Johnstone and Livingston for the top spot in the bottom half - that would be evidence we're moving in the right direction. But that doesn't look likely at the moment. So let's say that doesn't happen. Then the Board may well be considering replacing Martin with someone who can get more out of this squad.

I would understand that. It would be a considered approach. But I don't see any of the potential internal candidates doing that, so it would be a gamble on someone new to the club. The Board won't do that lightly.

It would be hard on Martin, who has kept us up against all the odds, season after season. I don't buy all the "ah but" arguments about how lucky he's been, or how rubbish the competition has been. He's kept us up. Full stop.

But our Board are ambitious, and it wouldn't surprise me if they're actively looking for that Steve Clarke-type appointment, who could lead us to top six. If they can find that elusive someone, I'd be all for his appointment, but I'm not for replacing Martin with just anyone.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby adriansprott » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:49 pm

WW , agree with your opinion that we shouldn't replace Canning with anyone , but I think that you'd be surprised at the calibre of candidate who Accies would attract should the BOD make a move while we are still in the SPL . The Celtic game last week shows me that we are not good enough to be in the same division as them ( even St Johnstone look a league above ffs ) , that performance was something you'd expect from a Div 1 / Div 2 team against Celtic and not an established SPL team like Accies . If you allow that the BOD are being ambitious by bolstering the squad ( and the wage bill ) , then you have to assume that they are giving serious consideration to the coaching area before its too late . All for keeping Martin at the club in some capacity but a shake-up on the management front looks to be a priority .
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby YeOldeHamiltonian » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:40 pm

After the break ins,the club could solve a number of issues thinking outside the box.Namely install Canning as Nightshift Security alongside McKinnon and Imrie which would have the double whammy of leading to a new Manager and making sure the aforementioned players are removed from the pitch and also not installed as Joint Managers.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby The Goalie » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:48 pm

YeOldeHamiltonian » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:40 pm

After the break ins, the club could solve a number of issues thinking outside the box. Namely install Canning as Nightshift Security alongside McKinnon and Imrie which would have the double whammy of leading to a new Manager and making sure the aforementioned players are removed from the pitch and also not installed as Joint Managers.

Unless Martin already has his S.I.A. Licence, he cannot be employed as a Nightshift Security Guard....oh hold on he is already being employed by Accies, even though he does not have his Pro Licence.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Willie Wastle » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:02 pm

It might surprise some to hear that I don't think Martin Canning should be "retained in some other capacity" if he's dismissed (or "leaves by mutual consent"). If he's replaced as manager, he should leave. Full stop. And the new guy should get to pick his own number 2, even if the rest of the backroom staff are retained.

Contrary to common belief on here, I think he'd get another job in Scottish football. At a lower level, certainly, but one where his ability to avoid relegation on a limited budget would be appreciated.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Stodmeister » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:17 pm

In reply to WW

Forums are for everyone's opinions and I hope that decent discussion points can be reviewed and replied to accordingly.

You obviously feel strongly about the club ,as do I and many others ,but let me ask you a couple of questions:

Are you enjoying the football served up this season?

Do think Martin should be in a job if we lose the next 2 games?
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby smc4761 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:30 pm

If as we are led to believe the BOD are ambitious for the club, investing in a decent playing squad, why is Martin still there. The ambitions for the club must be to at minimum retain our PL status and increase crowds due to playing attractive football. We are doing none of these things. Once the fans leave they aint coming back unless there isa huge improvement

WW wants the best for the club as I am sure we all do. He does however seem to see the positive side of the club and his main argument, which we cannot disagree on, is Martins target each year is to keep club in PL, which he has done.

With the right coaching however i am sure we could do so much better. We do have some decent players they just need to be coached better, play to decent tactics
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby porcupine » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:35 pm

smc4761 wrote:If as we are led to believe the BOD are ambitious for the club, investing in a decent playing squad, why is Martin still there. The ambitions for the club must be to at minimum retain our PL status and increase crowds due to playing attractive football. We are doing none of these things. Once the fans leave they aint coming back unless there isa huge improvement

WW wants the best for the club as I am sure we all do. He does however seem to see the positive side of the club and his main argument, which we cannot disagree on, is Martins target each year is to keep club in PL, which he has done.

With the right coaching however i am sure we could do so much better. We do have some decent players they just need to be coached better, play to decent tactics



Now, all of that post makes sound sense.
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Swift Frank » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 pm

:D :lol:
The Goalie wrote:YeOldeHamiltonian » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:40 pm

After the break ins, the club could solve a number of issues thinking outside the box. Namely install Canning as Nightshift Security alongside McKinnon and Imrie which would have the double whammy of leading to a new Manager and making sure the aforementioned players are removed from the pitch and also not installed as Joint Managers.

Unless Martin already has his S.I.A. Licence, he cannot be employed as a Nightshift Security Guard....oh hold on he is already being employed by Accies, even though he does not have his Pro Licence.

:lol:
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Willie Wastle » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:23 am

Stodmeister wrote:In reply to WW

Forums are for everyone's opinions and I hope that a decent discussion points can be reviewed and replied to accordingly.

You obviously feel strongly about the club as do I and many others but let me ask you a couple of questions:

Are you enjoying the football served up this season?

Do think Martin should be in a job if we lose the next 2 games?

The question about enjoying the football gets to the nub of this debate. Clearly, lots of people aren't. On the whole, I am. There are glaring weaknesses in the team, some of them not easily remediable, but that's always the way with Accies. If I wanted to see regular wins accompanied by silky football I could try one of the big city clubs - and there's plenty of better quality football on the telly. I prefer following Accies and savouring the moments of magic along with all the dross. I'd prefer we continue to struggle at the bottom of the Premier rather than drop down a league in the hope of dominating lesser opponents and improving our win ratio. If we can stay up this season, I'll be satisfied, although obviously I'd love to see us do better.

Re your second question, sacking a manager is not a solution - replacing him is. I don't mean to be pedantic, it's a serious point. Too many clubs sack first and work out what to do afterwards. If there's someone out there who is likely to do a better job as Accies manager, given the working constraints and limited budget we offer, the Board should be at least identifying him before sacking the incumbent. However, I agree that if we lose the next two then Martin's time is up (I just don't expect him to be sacked the morning after Dens).
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Re: Accies v Celtic

Postby Stodmeister » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:53 pm

My thoughts as well as others is that we should and could and should be doing better with the squad we have , a team of triers with no passengers and a decent Manager guiding them along the way would go a long way.

Puzzling tactics , suspensions due to our indiscipline , a captain ,who needs to remember that's who he is and lead by example , week on week team changes and baffling "go to" selections i.e. Bingham & Imrie all stem from one source. Under the guidance of Alex Neil we feared no one it's now the polar opposite.

Let's see what happens in the coming fortnight we are playing 2 teams that we are to be "judged" against.
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