Players don't want to come to Hamilton Accies

[sectiona]

The gangster connection is really putting me off the club. I have heard some rumours for years and yes, when we were doing well you don't really think about it too much. But this Barry Hughes stuff is new to me at least. I wonder if I stood up at a forum and asked about gangster involvement in Hamilton Accies, what the reaction would be?

You would be invited in for a "wee chat" as others have been. I really can't believe the fans who believe that the board are actually Accies supporters. McGowan has openly admitted he hates football and would rather watch cricket.

[H9crx]

Myth my ass

Google it ya FuD and look up who the youth team have as an agent!

you may also recall the Dome being touted a s boxing arena I wonder why!

[Joemcc]

Yes and that income being generated, and spent, is possibly why we are already punching above our weight and not in the lower leagues where we have spent the vast majority of the last 140 odd years.

Actually - before the introduction of the Premier Division in 1975 - Accies spent 36 seasons out of 71 in the top division of Scottish Football. Admittedly it was easier to stay in the top division when it was 18/20 teams but the fact is they were in the top division and not in the lower leagues as you say.

[sectiona]

Myth my ass

Google it ya FuD and look up who the youth team have as an agent!

you may also recall the Dome being touted a s boxing arena I wonder why!

The dome they say never existed.

[redandwhite1874]

Yes and that income being generated, and spent, is possibly why we are already punching above our weight and not in the lower leagues where we have spent the vast majority of the last 140 odd years.

Actually - before the introduction of the Premier Division in 1975 - Accies spent 36 seasons out of 71 in the top division of Scottish Football. Admittedly it was easier to stay in the top division when it was 18/20 teams but the fact is they were in the top division and not in the lower leagues as you say.

Good point well made.

[Willie Wastle]

Yes and that income being generated, and spent, is possibly why we are already punching above our weight and not in the lower leagues where we have spent the vast majority of the last 140 odd years.

Actually - before the introduction of the Premier Division in 1975 - Accies spent 36 seasons out of 71 in the top division of Scottish Football. Admittedly it was easier to stay in the top division when it was 18/20 teams but the fact is they were in the top division and not in the lower leagues as you say.

Actually: that's a manipulation of stats derived from a selective period.

From the recommencement of Scottish league football after WW2 - season 1946/47 - to Accies winning promotion in 1985/86 was 39 seasons, of which Accies played just 3 in the top flight. That's 36 out of 39 outside the top flight.

Since then there have been 30 seasons including this season, of which we've spent 8 in the top flight, and 22 out of 30 outside the top flight.

Overall, in post-war football, we've spent 11 seasons in the top flight and 58 below.

(It's true that we played in the top flight from 1907 to 1939, but there was no consistent structure below the top flight in those days, and no regular relegation. For example, we finished bottom in 1907 and weren't relegated.)

[Joemcc]

Yes and that income being generated, and spent, is possibly why we are already punching above our weight and not in the lower leagues where we have spent the vast majority of the last 140 odd years.

Actually - before the introduction of the Premier Division in 1975 - Accies spent 36 seasons out of 71 in the top division of Scottish Football. Admittedly it was easier to stay in the top division when it was 18/20 teams but the fact is they were in the top division and not in the lower leagues as you say.

Actually: that's a manipulation of stats derived from a selective period.

From the recommencement of Scottish league football after WW2 - season 1946/47 - to Accies winning promotion in 1985/86 was 39 seasons, of which Accies played just 3 in the top flight. That's 36 out of 39 outside the top flight.

Since then there have been 30 seasons including this season, of which we've spent 8 in the top flight, and 22 out of 30 outside the top flight.

Overall, in post-war football, we've spent 11 seasons in the top flight and 58 below.

(It's true that we played in the top flight from 1907 to 1939, but there was no consistent structure below the top flight in those days, and no regular relegation. For example, we finished bottom in 1907 and weren't relegated.)

Actually similar to people using the 2 wins in 21 stat against Canning then which has been quoted often by fans in several media forums.
Ultimately Accies have spent a lot more than a minority of their history in the top league prior to the 10 team setup in 1975 - that setup was a disaster for the smaller clubs in Scotland and continues to be so. We need a change in the whole league structure for the benefit of Scottish football as a whole - not just 2 Glasgow teams

[Bomber Harris]

I prefer to use the 19 wins in 84 games over 2 years to judge Martin Canning joemac because this is the truth. your point is a great point but we're not living in 1975 and football has moved on since then. Accies have in the last 10 years survived 5 seasons out 9 hopefully a 6th in tv money generated era of top flight football. millions have been made at accies from transfers, TV money and sponsorship deals plus league prize money. Billy Reid era was great with quality signings, a league championship and a great 3 years then it went stale. Then we had the Alex Neil era, quality football, play off win and bringing in proven class like Jason scotland, mcgovern and andreu. now we have Martin Canning, Given a quality side to build on and he has went from bad to worse to utter crap. 2 years we've went from signing world cup keepers, world cup strikers to signing 22 duds including a guy from the Trinidad army, a guy who trained with Bobby peta down the pitz and a guy who spent his accies career taking selfies in front of Hamilton landmarks. What the hell has happened to accies since Alex Neil left?

[redandwhite1874]

That's the thing about punching above your weight - its really hard to maintain. The great success of this regime in the last decade is a great point. A period when the apparent moral compass of many allowed some/many of the same allegations as are currently circulating to be forgotten.

[Willie Wastle]

Ultimately Accies have spent a lot more than a minority of their history in the top league prior to the 10 team setup in 1975 - that setup was a disaster for the smaller clubs in Scotland and continues to be so. We need a change in the whole league structure for the benefit of Scottish football as a whole - not just 2 Glasgow teams

Simply not true.

You seem to be trying to back up a theory about league restructuring in 1975 being detrimental to small clubs, so let's start with that. I'm sympathetic, but not convinced. There's a correlation (not necessarily causation) between that restructuring and the general decline of Scottish football. That structure has stuck because it favours medium sized clubs from Aberdeen to, say, St Johnstone (and arguably including us in the last decade), by giving them extra games with Celtic and Rangers (= increased gate receipts). No club in this group - or aspiring to be - is going to vote against this cash bonus. It's a triumph of short term cash gain over long term interest. FWIW, I favour a return to a 16 or 18 team top league, although that's probably as much of a structure as can be sustained.

The other point is about how big Accies have been historically, and it's wrong to suggest we have typically been part of the top flight. The period before WW2 is ancient history: to have lived through it, and watched us at the end of that period, the 1930s, you need to now be at least in your late 80s. But OK, in that period we were in the top flight for 32 years from 1906/07 to 1938/39; the corollary is that we were not in the top flight from our inception in 1874 to 1906 - an equal period of 32 years.

Many more of today's Accies fans have followed us since 1947/48. Even taking your chosen period to 1974/75, that adds up to 27 seasons, 24 of which we spent outside the top flight, compared to 3 in it. Then from 1975/76 to 2016/17, we've spent 8 out of 41 seasons in the top flight, 33 out of 41 outside it. (As an aside, you could infer from those stats that we've benefitted from 1975 restructuring, but let's not go there.)

In summary, pre-WW2 we spent 50% of the time in and 50% out of the top flight, post-WW2, 84% out of the top flight, 16% in it.

[Joemcc]

I prefer to use the 19 wins in 84 games over 2 years to judge Martin Canning joemac because this is the truth. your point is a great point but we're not living in 1975 and football has moved on since then. Accies have in the last 10 years survived 5 seasons out 9 hopefully a 6th in tv money generated era of top flight football. millions have been made at accies from transfers, TV money and sponsorship deals plus league prize money. Billy Reid era was great with quality signings, a league championship and a great 3 years then it went stale. Then we had the Alex Neil era, quality football, play off win and bringing in proven class like Jason scotland, mcgovern and andreu. now we have Martin Canning, Given a quality side to build on and he has went from bad to worse to utter crap. 2 years we've went from signing world cup keepers, world cup strikers to signing 22 duds including a guy from the Trinidad army, a guy who trained with Bobby peta down the pitz and a guy who spent his accies career taking selfies in front of Hamilton landmarks. What the hell has happened to accies since Alex Neil left?

I'm not trying to stick up for Canning - exactly the opposite ! I think his time is up. I was just pointing out that you can't just choose to ignore facts because it was 'a different era' or 'ancient history'. Using that logic we should just discount any league championships won by clubs say before WW2 or some other arbitrary date.

Ultimately I think what we have are two groups of fans - one group believes that we are 'punching above our weight' and basically should be grateful for our recent success and just disappear back into the lower leagues without a murmur. The other group believes that we should be using our recent success to build upon and try to improve our overall standing in the game (I am definitely in this group).

The board appear to be content to let things go as they are and basically hope that we manage to retain our position in the top division - I think they are wrong and I think they should look for a change of manager.

[Joemcc]

Ultimately Accies have spent a lot more than a minority of their history in the top league prior to the 10 team setup in 1975 - that setup was a disaster for the smaller clubs in Scotland and continues to be so. We need a change in the whole league structure for the benefit of Scottish football as a whole - not just 2 Glasgow teams

Simply not true.

You seem to be trying to back up a theory about league restructuring in 1975 being detrimental to small clubs, so let's start with that. I'm sympathetic, but not convinced. There's a correlation (not necessarily causation) between that restructuring and the general decline of Scottish football. That structure has stuck because it favours medium sized clubs from Aberdeen to, say, St Johnstone (and arguably including us in the last decade), by giving them extra games with Celtic and Rangers (= increased gate receipts). No club in this group - or aspiring to be - is going to vote against this cash bonus. It's a triumph of short term cash gain over long term interest. FWIW, I favour a return to a 16 or 18 team top league, although that's probably as much of a structure as can be sustained.

You say this structure is good for medium size clubs yet favour an increase in the size of the top division - you can't have both !

[redandwhite1874]

Joemcc - it's not a matter of grateful or without a murmur; more a matter of at least recognising our current level compared to recent and historical performance and factoring in that context.

I would be surprised if anyone didn't want us to build on our success; but I would suggest that those that brought that success are well placed to continue to sustainably run the club. Ensuring that relegation is not a crisis is a great thing but it is unfortunately misrepresented.

[Willie Wastle]

Ultimately Accies have spent a lot more than a minority of their history in the top league prior to the 10 team setup in 1975 - that setup was a disaster for the smaller clubs in Scotland and continues to be so. We need a change in the whole league structure for the benefit of Scottish football as a whole - not just 2 Glasgow teams

Simply not true.

You seem to be trying to back up a theory about league restructuring in 1975 being detrimental to small clubs, so let's start with that. I'm sympathetic, but not convinced. There's a correlation (not necessarily causation) between that restructuring and the general decline of Scottish football. That structure has stuck because it favours medium sized clubs from Aberdeen to, say, St Johnstone (and arguably including us in the last decade), by giving them extra games with Celtic and Rangers (= increased gate receipts). No club in this group - or aspiring to be - is going to vote against this cash bonus. It's a triumph of short term cash gain over long term interest. FWIW, I favour a return to a 16 or 18 team top league, although that's probably as much of a structure as can be sustained.

You say this structure is good for medium size clubs yet favour an increase in the size of the top division - you can't have both !

I don't want both.

I was explaining why some clubs have consistently supported the current model, not defending them.

[smc4761]

Canning in the paper today saying that they have tried to sign 6 players, full backs and a striker but with no luck.

So no doubt we will be running about like headless chickens on last day of transfer window signing more Euro duds or English non league duds

[porcupine]

Canning in the paper today saying that they have tried to sign 6 players, full backs and a striker but with no luck.

So no doubt we will be running about like headless chickens on last day of transfer window signing more Euro duds or English non league duds

Not so sure about Non-League "duds" Any 'National League' teams I have watched seem to have plenty of talented footballers. I suspect that not only would their existing contracts be as good, if not better, than anything we could offer, but the attraction of having to re-locate themselves to Scotland migh tnot be the most attractive offer they have been made.

Concur with the Euro and Rest of the World duds, though. Waste of finite resources, it seems, unless there has been an ulterior motive for a succession of pathetic signings. Conspiratory Theorists now respond

[Stevie Clarke]

Wouldn't mind a non-league dud like Louis Moult, Ben Heneghan or Richard Tait.

[redandwhite1874]

On one hand it is easy to recognise it's hard to bring players in. However bringing in players means finding your place in the market; many clubs can offer more than us but we are also bigger than many clubs, we need to find our place and make the best of what we can get. Whilst signings this season have been better there are loads of examples of players nowhere near good enough actually getting in the door. MC makes reference to looking for a right back since last year; but not bringing in anyone is not necessarily the best option when facing these difficulties.

[Stevie Clarke]

Celtic have loaned out highly rated Kristoffer Ajer to Killie. No qualms then about sending him to a club with a plastic pitch. Do we have any friends in the game apart from at Norwich? Celtic are happy enough to pinch some of our youngest talents but not so keen to loan us any players.

[Bomber Harris]

Celtic have loaned out highly rated Kristoffer Ajer to Killie. No qualms then about sending him to a club with a plastic pitch. Do we have any friends in the game apart from at Norwich? Celtic are happy enough to pinch some of our youngest talents but not so keen to loan us any players.

or miby Rodgers finds Lee Clark to be a better coach to learn from than canning. wouldn't be hard tho Canning would probably play the lad a full back and ruin his career.