What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby H9crx » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:05 pm

I think we all had reservation when Alex took over he had a few games as caretaker we all saw the change in the team and he rightfully got the job due to results, did we not turn over Ardire 5-0. If it was a shit fest like now I think he would have still got the job as he was a yes man for the board as was Billy before him. I don't have a problem with yes men as the club is well run. I do have a problem that when someone is caretaker and get pumped in every game and still gets the job. You have to ask why!
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:08 pm

porcupine wrote:
One other point. Did many others note that we had no width for most of the game? Other than the goalkeeper, EVERY player was in one quarter of the pitch on too may occasions? Almost like a schoolboys game where everyone wants a touch of the ball!!!! As a result, we failed to stretch St Mirren on the flanks. The next two weeks with a resurgent Ross county coming to town, are going to the the make or break of our complete Management team.


We sacrificed width to go with 2 up top; many people seemed to think that was the way to go. We have tried that so lets get back to the 451 that suits us; we don't have 1 proven striker let alone 2. Obviously you can play 4 in midfield and spread them across the pitch but I think that would have been even worse.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:14 pm

H9crx wrote:I think we all had reservation when Alex took over he had a few games as caretaker we all saw the change in the team and he rightfully got the job due to results, did we not turn over Ardire 5-0. If it was a shit fest like now I think he would have still got the job as he was a yes man for the board as was Billy before him. I don't have a problem with yes men as the club is well run. I do have a problem that when someone is caretaker and get pumped in every game and still gets the job. You have to ask why!


Alex being a yes man doesn't really tally with his success down south does it. You now seem to saying the term 'yes man' is a simple descriptor and not a comment meant to be derogatory; I didn't get that sense from your post, maybe I called it wrong?

For me the stuff being bandied about is the reactionary behaviour of people struggling to handle where we are right now and hitting out at everything and anything. From 'cheap options' and 'yes men' to moaning about the pictures within the stadium!.......... all things that seemed perfectly acceptable until 2 months ago.

For me if ever an Accies board deserved loyalty and perhaps the room to make a mistake (if that's how it plays out) then its this one. People are missing the irony of using the uber success brought to this club by the board to beat the very same board with now things are getting a wee bit rough.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Accies4ever » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:16 pm

porcupine wrote:Other than H9crx's usual negativity, this is an excellent thread with sound opinions throughout. As said by me two weeks ago and many others, Canning HAS to see the game from the sidelines and preferably from the stand where he can see the play developing/ mistakes being made etc. etc. With Tena available for the next game, there is no excuse for the Manager to be playing himself. We COULD not play any worse than Saturday. Canning has to have the balls to manage the situation and the current problems. It is now long overdue that he stamps his authority on the players. If he cannot, or is unwilling to change being one of the 'boys', then he is dead in the water. Whilst some will not like it, most groups of staff, footballers included, are looking for strong leadership, and our team at Accies are no different, whether they know that or not.

Most of our squad have not become bad players in six weeks. All are clearly suffering a massive lack of confidence in their own ability. This CAN be managed by the right person. I am far from sure that, what looked like an excellent back-up team of Swailes and Buezellin, are gelling with everyone else, and the lack of decision making regarding the need of early substitutes on Saturday, is a clear example.

One other point. Did many others note that we had no width for most of the game? Other than the goalkeeper, EVERY player was in one quarter of the pitch on too may occasions? Almost like a schoolboys game where everyone wants a touch of the ball!!!! As a result, we failed to stretch St Mirren on the flanks. The next two weeks with a resurgent Ross county coming to town, are going to the the make or break of our complete Management team.


Like it or not, but if we lose to Ross Co at home quickly followed by a loss to Motherwell away, the calls for Canning to go, may well be overwhelming and his time may well be truly up.
I'm sure Canning's feeling the immense pressure and I wish he hadn't had such a baptism of fire, but he chose to take the job, with all that comes with it.
All good managers (not just in football) have to from time to time look at things dispassionately in order to gauge what to do next.
Canning has to have the confidence to do that now and put the correct changes in place.
If he can't, then there's no helping him and he was bound to fail.
Good luck Canzo or it maybe good bye.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby H9crx » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:40 pm

redandwhite1874 wrote:
H9crx wrote:I think we all had reservation when Alex took over he had a few games as caretaker we all saw the change in the team and he rightfully got the job due to results, did we not turn over Ardire 5-0. If it was a shit fest like now I think he would have still got the job as he was a yes man for the board as was Billy before him. I don't have a problem with yes men as the club is well run. I do have a problem that when someone is caretaker and get pumped in every game and still gets the job. You have to ask why!


Alex being a yes man doesn't really tally with his success down south does it. You now seem to saying the term 'yes man' is a simple descriptor and not a comment meant to be derogatory; I didn't get that sense from your post, maybe I called it wrong?

For me the stuff being bandied about is the reactionary behaviour of people struggling to handle where we are right now and hitting out at everything and anything. From 'cheap options' and 'yes men' to moaning about the pictures within the stadium!.......... all things that seemed perfectly acceptable until 2 months ago.

For me if ever an Accies board deserved loyalty and perhaps the room to make a mistake (if that's how it plays out) then its this one. People are missing the irony of using the uber success brought to this club by the board to beat the very same board with now things are getting a wee bit rough.


Yes man does not stop you being a good manager. I don't think the board tell the gaffer how to play I do think they influence who plays and who we bring in. You can't tell me that we kept playing SH when he was rank because he was first pick over the fact that we had the chance of selling him.

Back on topic

I think MC coming out in the press and stating that he was giving the players no targets was a big mistake. Every one needs targets and pressure to achieve to get the best out of them. With out goals and targets you get the last 9 games lack luster under achievement.
Last edited by H9crx on Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:47 pm

So how does continually playing someone who in your opinion is playing poorly (or rank even) then help to sell him; how does that add to their value? - if that was the case we will be getting bids galore for most of the team who played on Saturday? ;)

Do you honestly think Alex Neil only played Stephen cos Les or Ronnie told him? Really? They are football men and I think Alex and others might value their opinions and Les is certainly not going to buy anyone the manager fancies - but that is not unusual in football. Telling the manager to play someone when they don't want to is a strong accusation. For me I think you are confusing a close and fruitful working relationship (something most fans would value between board and management and a scenario that has rewarded us handsomely) with your puppet scenario - it's lazy, superficial way of looking at it for me.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Alexander the Great » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 pm

DC United wrote:There was nothing wrong with appointing Canning as interim manager, however after three defeats - particularly the drubbing by Thistle, the board should have realised he wasn't the man to take the club forward.

Selling Andreu for £1m+ is a great bit of business, disappointing as it was to see him go. Being able to sell Hendrie for anything is even better! A few signings would have been nice, however the problem lies with the management / coaching situation.



agreed.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Accies999 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:29 pm

Quite a nice constructive thread with lots of good input.

IMO the damage was done before Martin took over. I stated on more than one occasion that the squad was too weak. As it turns out we lose our 3 best players and bang goes our leadership our flair and our goals. You just had to look at the bench even during our good run which was full of promising youngsters. Fine having promise but with no experience to guide them and you end up with the scenario we have now.

I really hope Martin turns it around starting with a win against Ross County. I really hope he starts with Sumsky, Lynch, Tagliapietra and Brophy as he can't really trust a few of the players on the park at the moment.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Red_Adair » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:36 pm

I believe that Alex Neil had been lined up as Billy's replacement since before Swansea made an approach. When Alex was out injured, he was normally down in the dugout acting as Billy's assistant. I feel this gave him a huge amount of help in learning the manager's role. I also feel he could see where Billy made tactical mistakes and learned from these.

Martin Canning didn't really have the opportunity to shadow Alex as much as Alex did with Billy.

I understand why the club put Martin in charge on the initial interim period, but what the board should also have done was to bring in someone who could mentor Martin; a Jimmy Calderwood or Alex Totten style person.

The board were too quick in giving Martin the role full time especially when he still wants to play. Watching him try to give instructions to the bench just now doesn't work.

The board want the club to be a community club, bringing through players then selling them on. I have no issues with that and once the super duper AcciesThunderDome is in place, then it will give the youth an advantage in their training.

But to allow a player with no real experience to take the managers role with no mentor was a gamble that has failed. From being comfortable in the top six, there is real danger we will drop like a stone down the table. Was it not Hibs last season that were doing well up to a point then started slipping down the league?
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Whiskeytown » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:32 pm

Red_Adair wrote:
But to allow a player with no real experience to take the managers role with no mentor was a gamble that has failed. From being comfortable in the top six, there is real danger we will drop like a stone down the table. Was it not Hibs last season that were doing well up to a point then started slipping down the league?


Not last season Red, but the one before (although they were doing ok first half of last season). They were top after 13 games, like us, but only won a few games after new year. Last season they looked completely safe before plummeting like a stone from about this point. There is no danger of us finishing any worse than 9th, can't believe I'm even typing that, but a team on the slide one season can easily become a relegated team the next.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Yummy Fur » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:33 pm

Out of interest since the new management team were appointed we have lost 3 out of the last 4 (scoring 4 goals in the process) U20 league games after having previously being unbeaten in 12 games (scoring 52 goals in the process).

Just saying.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Alexander the Great » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:53 pm

Yummy Fur wrote:Out of interest since the new management team were appointed we have lost 3 out of the last 4 (scoring 4 goals in the process) U20 league games after having previously being unbeaten in 12 games (scoring 52 goals in the process).

Just saying.



yip the new management team is rotten to the core, its just not working.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Accies4ever » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:07 pm

I don't think a Mentor is really the way to go on this.
Mentor implies that Canning still calls the shots.

What we should have gone with is an experienced manager to take care of the responsibilities of the team, with Canning assisting him and learning the trade.
Canning really should have been the manager in waiting.

It's not too late to fix this you know.
We need the board to take the decisions now, to salvage this season.

If they delay, they're going to put Canning under so much pressure that he may just quit, out of sheer frustration.

If the board do act, the real loser may be Swailes, as the club may have to pay him off.
That may be a small price to pay, if it gets things sorted out properly.
Still suspect the board will do nothing until the very earliest, the close season.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Whiskeytown » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:29 pm

Yummy Fur wrote:Out of interest since the new management team were appointed we have lost 3 out of the last 4 (scoring 4 goals in the process) U20 league games after having previously being unbeaten in 12 games (scoring 52 goals in the process).

Just saying.


And we seem to have been beaten today by a team of Dundee youngsters with only one player who's had any first team experience and even he, Wighton, is a kid. We had Tena, Longridge and Redmond all starting.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Alexander the Great » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:43 pm

Dundee currently have 8 first team players injured, that could be their top 6 ambitions scuppered.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Accies4ever » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:03 pm

Alexander the Great wrote:Dundee currently have 8 first team players injured, that could be their top 6 ambitions scuppered.



We can only hope.

Whiskeytown wrote:
Yummy Fur wrote:Out of interest since the new management team were appointed we have lost 3 out of the last 4 (scoring 4 goals in the process) U20 league games after having previously being unbeaten in 12 games (scoring 52 goals in the process).

Just saying.


And we seem to have been beaten today by a team of Dundee youngsters with only one player who's had any first team experience and even he, Wighton, is a kid. We had Tena, Longridge and Redmond all starting.


Yet another sign of things going wrong, eh!
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Todd_is_God » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:09 pm

It's an absolute crying shame what has happened at Hamilton since Neil left.

We had a team in the top 3, and the U20s and U17s also flying.

For the first time in decades Hamilton had a team to be truly proud of; amazing how quickly pride can turn to despair, then anger.
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby silverfox » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:47 pm

Todd_is_God wrote:It's an absolute crying shame what has happened at Hamilton since Neil left.

We had a team in the top 3, and the U20s and U17s also flying.

For the first time in decades Hamilton had a team to be truly proud of; amazing how quickly pride can turn to despair, then anger.



In a nutshell
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Re: What Could or Should Have Been Done Differently ?

Postby Accies4ever » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:07 pm

silverfox wrote:
Todd_is_God wrote:It's an absolute crying shame what has happened at Hamilton since Neil left.

We had a team in the top 3, and the U20s and U17s also flying.

For the first time in decades Hamilton had a team to be truly proud of; amazing how quickly pride can turn to despair, then anger.



In a nutshell


Done crying about this, from a club that prides itself thinking about the long term, they've made a complete balls-up of things, in the short term.
Now I'm getting angry.

Where is Les or Ronnie, nowhere to be seen.
I hope the board do happen to look at these forum pages from time to time, and have the gumption to give us supporters some aspect that they share the pain and that they have plans to correct it.

If the plan is only to bring more young players through, well they need to re-think things.
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