A tale of 2 shares

[TerracingTomas]

I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about how Rupert Murdoch and his family retain control of News International despite not owning the majority of shares. It’s because of the existence of dual class shares. Shares can be divided into 2 classes, ones with voting powers and ones with purely economic interest. The latter means you get a dividend if there is one and if the company is doing well and the price of your shares go up you can sell and make a profit. But your shares have no voting rights. You get no say at shareholders meetings, you cant appoint/fire directors, fire executives, make corporate decisions. Those privileges lie with those holding shares with voting rights and the Murdoch family owns the majority of those.

So what’s this got to do with Accies you might ask? Remember back in July last year there was a special meeting for all Accies shareholders at which it was agreed to increase the shareholding to attract investment. Essentially the existing shareholding of 573,757+ shares was increased by an additional 1,426,243 shares that could be sold to generate investment.

So if I bought the 1,426,243 shares I’d own Accies wouldn’t I ? Sorry not necessarily. The same meeting voted to create dual class shares and that happened. All existing shares became either A shares with voting rights or B shares with purely economic interest. And guess what? Mcgoofey turned 100,000 shares held by his company Edencrest into A shares with voting rights and the rest of his shares and everybody else’s for that matter became B shares with no voting rights. So he controls Accies through a minority of shares but the ones which count the ones with voting rights. So if Serif has truly bought the club he has had to acquire the A shares or a majority at least otherwise Mcgoofey still has control. Now Serif is a successful businessman whose company Active Access has a sound trading history so I’m sure he’s got the voting right shares!!!

[smc4761]

Excellent post as always TT and very enlightning

Now Serif is a successful business man in his own right. I would like to assume that all due diligence etc will have been done by Serif or his representatives

[YeOldeHamiltonian]

Apparently Serif is on holiday which is delaying the announcement of taking control of The Football Club.

[EarnockAccie]

Its utterly pointless without control of the Stadium.
Our asset stripping is complete. Our football club has been robbed. Don't buy the lie.

[PrideOfLanarkshire]

I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about how Rupert Murdoch and his family retain control of News International despite not owning the majority of shares. It’s because of the existence of dual class shares. Shares can be divided into 2 classes, ones with voting powers and ones with purely economic interest. The latter means you get a dividend if there is one and if the company is doing well and the price of your shares go up you can sell and make a profit. But your shares have no voting rights. You get no say at shareholders meetings, you cant appoint/fire directors, fire executives, make corporate decisions. Those privileges lie with those holding shares with voting rights and the Murdoch family owns the majority of those.

So what’s this got to do with Accies you might ask? Remember back in July last year there was a special meeting for all Accies shareholders at which it was agreed to increase the shareholding to attract investment. Essentially the existing shareholding of 573,757+ shares was increased by an additional 1,426,243 shares that could be sold to generate investment.

So if I bought the 1,426,243 shares I’d own Accies wouldn’t I ? Sorry not necessarily. The same meeting voted to create dual class shares and that happened. All existing shares became either A shares with voting rights or B shares with purely economic interest. And guess what? Mcgoofey turned 100,000 shares held by his company Edencrest into A shares with voting rights and the rest of his shares and everybody else’s for that matter became B shares with no voting rights. So he controls Accies through a minority of shares but the ones which count the ones with voting rights. So if Serif has truly bought the club he has had to acquire the A shares or a majority at least otherwise Mcgoofey still has control. Now Serif is a successful businessman whose company Active Access has a sound trading history so I’m sure he’s got the voting right shares!!!

Thanks for this TT.

So the full thing is essentially pointless then.

[TerracingTomas]

So the full thing is essentially pointless then.

Not sure what u mean by the full thing POL. If Serif acquires the voting shares or the majority thereof he owns the football club otherwise he is merely a front man for Mcgoofey. But without the stadium the club loses an asset that was designed to provide the club with revenue not line Mcgoofeys pockets. Livingston manage to operate successfully with out owning Almondvale but then they don't have Mcgoofey for a landlord. Let's get the club out of his hands then we can focus on the stadium!

[Stevie Clarke]

But also have to focus on stadium maintenance, as Niall said. We currently don't have to worry about that. Yes, I'm now conflicted!

[OnlyHamilton]

So the full thing is essentially pointless then.

Not sure what u mean by the full thing POL. If Serif acquires the voting shares or the majority thereof he owns the football club otherwise he is merely a front man for Mcgoofey. But without the stadium the club loses an asset that was designed to provide the club with revenue not line Mcgoofeys pockets. Livingston manage to operate successfully with out owning Almondvale but then they don't have Mcgoofey for a landlord. Let's get the club out of his hands then we can focus on the stadium!

As far as ive been led to believe and what seems to be getting touted is that Serif has the majority of shares however like you say TT Mcgowan and his company have far less shares however his shares are very much the A ones meaning it is still his ball - im sure the announcement will paint the picture of Majority shareholder but will fail to mention what type of shares - This has clearly been cleverly planned from Mcg since he introduced the increased shares meeting in my opinion and there was always going to be another "name shift" like that of what weve seen over the years.

[niallfraser8]

Look gentleman l have studied the club accounts going back years and so has TT, he knows the wages that Mcgowan has paid players alone has been more than 12x the season ticket revenue year in year out never mind him paying staff, youth academy wages and club running costs. Accies support was decimated long before Mcgowan ever got here. You all know that is a fact why no one acknowledges this baffles me. l was told Colin suspects that TT has his own personal agenda whatever that is ...l was told that he thinks TT has poisoned most of you gentlemen over time. The truth is when I worked with Colin it was clear he gave his all for our club and his charities. Guiding the club into the best times Accies have ever known bringing in millions. Nobody cares to acknowledge all the new young supporters that came from Colin’s school talks, over 100k watched his 9 minute video with the SPL even reposting it. Does that not tell you anything boys...honestly this web site amuses me. In fact do you not see that if no one had bought a season book it wouldn’t have not have made a single difference to Colin l now think I understand what l was told by a few people, fellow supporters that said its a handful of toxic supporters that are the real problem at our club, their unbelievable expectations and sense of entitlement is jaw-dropping, this handful of delusional toxic supporters with loud social media voices give little support to our club - mostly cowards hiding behind keyboards, hiding their true identities normally very sad and unhappy individuals that only feel alive when attacking somebody or something, devoid of common decency. These same toxic voices were there when Accies were in the premiership and was told that they are relatively insignificant to the running of the business although they damage the Accies brand. Colin is certain the vast majority of supporters are really decent people that truly love their club although most realise Accies supporters are a very small part of the community as a whole. When the club is sold l am sure Colin will concentrate on his bigger picture of running his property company looking after his tenants of which we are one. We have always been a tenant, always will be a tenant because where is the 5 million pound to buy our own stadium going to come from? Thank god Colin was there or a developer could have bought it and built flats.

We all know about Colin’s charity work, that it’s his real passion and that annoys a few people on acciesworld, how dare he help people “we are a football club not a charity!!” Although the club, our football club receives revenue from these charities is quite significant revenue ask any new owners to disclose exactly how much revenue the charities give hamilton accies football club and you will be shocked, it may change some opinions although I am certain you won't ask because it won't fit the acciesworld narrative. Anyway with Colin selling the club l expect he will have more time on his hands which our community can only benefit from. My biggest worry is that his money raising ability was quite exceptional although l accept no one on this site would acknowledge that either and l wonder why not? It’s that word “narrative” again. Anyway hopefully we will get a top commercial man that will match or even better what Colin normally brought in, that will let us enjoy a season of winning some games in fact l may even stick a wager on this season to win this division.
I'll leave you all to continue to be the balanced voice of the accies with your glorious leader Terracing Thomas a man of the people, a man of integrity, a proud well respected man. Who ever TT is Accies are lucky to have him, its people like TT that will play a major role in rebuilding Accies once Mcgowan is away. Maybe TT will be the chairman one day? l am told he already had a bit of success with selling the program in the 70s. Goodbye fellow supporters hope you all buy your season books.
Please do not respond to this post because I am seeking help from acciesworld anonymous... you will only hear from me if l have relapsed.

[Gav]

Got as far as Accies support was decimated before Colin. We have lost about 60% of support since 2014 FFS.

[PrideOfLanarkshire]

Look gentleman l have studied the club accounts going back years and so has TT, he knows the wages that Mcgowan has paid players alone has been more than 12x the season ticket revenue year in year out never mind him paying staff, youth academy wages and club running costs. Accies support was decimated long before Mcgowan ever got here. You all know that is a fact why no one acknowledges this baffles me. l was told Colin suspects that TT has his own personal agenda whatever that is ...l was told that he thinks TT has poisoned most of you gentlemen over time. The truth is when I worked with Colin it was clear he gave his all for our club and his charities. Guiding the club into the best times Accies have ever known bringing in millions. Nobody cares to acknowledge all the new young supporters that came from Colin’s school talks, over 100k watched his 9 minute video with the SPL even reposting it. Does that not tell you anything boys...honestly this web site amuses me. In fact do you not see that if no one had bought a season book it wouldn’t have not have made a single difference to Colin l now think I understand what l was told by a few people, fellow supporters that said its a handful of toxic supporters that are the real problem at our club, their unbelievable expectations and sense of entitlement is jaw-dropping, this handful of delusional toxic supporters with loud social media voices give little support to our club - mostly cowards hiding behind keyboards, hiding their true identities normally very sad and unhappy individuals that only feel alive when attacking somebody or something, devoid of common decency. These same toxic voices were there when Accies were in the premiership and was told that they are relatively insignificant to the running of the business although they damage the Accies brand. Colin is certain the vast majority of supporters are really decent people that truly love their club although most realise Accies supporters are a very small part of the community as a whole. When the club is sold l am sure Colin will concentrate on his bigger picture of running his property company looking after his tenants of which we are one. We have always been a tenant, always will be a tenant because where is the 5 million pound to buy our own stadium going to come from? Thank god Colin was there or a developer could have bought it and built flats.

We all know about Colin’s charity work, that it’s his real passion and that annoys a few people on acciesworld, how dare he help people “we are a football club not a charity!!” Although the club, our football club receives revenue from these charities is quite significant revenue ask any new owners to disclose exactly how much revenue the charities give hamilton accies football club and you will be shocked, it may change some opinions although I am certain you won't ask because it won't fit the acciesworld narrative. Anyway with Colin selling the club l expect he will have more time on his hands which our community can only benefit from. My biggest worry is that his money raising ability was quite exceptional although l accept no one on this site would acknowledge that either and l wonder why not? It’s that word “narrative” again. Anyway hopefully we will get a top commercial man that will match or even better what Colin normally brought in, that will let us enjoy a season of winning some games in fact l may even stick a wager on this season to win this division.
I'll leave you all to continue to be the balanced voice of the accies with your glorious leader Terracing Thomas a man of the people, a man of integrity, a proud well respected man. Who ever TT is Accies are lucky to have him, its people like TT that will play a major role in rebuilding Accies once Mcgowan is away. Maybe TT will be the chairman one day? l am told he already had a bit of success with selling the program in the 70s. Goodbye fellow supporters hope you all buy your season books.
Please do not respond to this post because I am seeking help from acciesworld anonymous... you will only hear from me if l have relapsed.

Every fan i speak with has the same opinion on McGowan, i would say it's 95% of the support.

The other 5% benefit from McGowan, one way or another.

Speaking of cowards, why have you not replied to the original TT thread? Got something to hide?

[manxaccie]

Because of the way the stadium is split from the football club I guess we will never know the exact flow of money from the stadium to the football club and vice versa. It's therefore impossible to gauge how much McGowan is supporting the football club, or, as we fans mostly believe, the other way around. The increase in rent could very well be offset by something else and McGowan may well be, as Niall Fraser is claiming, supporting the football club via his charity endeavors etc, but as the accounts are deliberately so complicated, it's impossible to ascertain exactly what is going on.

As far as I can tell, Terracing Tomas is purely providing the facts to the accounts and making suggestions why something is as it is. I've not seen him claim anything else? That is something that only Magowan and his accountant is going to know for sure - again something that NiallFraser (unless he is privy to the accounts himself) can only really guess at. He is certainly within his rights to support McGowan but surely he is guessing as much as the rest of us are?

The club have done many things right over the past few years - the youth team, our best spell in the top league etc, but they have also been shambolic in other aspects - the scattergun approach and last minute transfers, the fraud, the lack of fan engagement, the shop, the website etc. For every positive we always seem to have a major negative that, to be honest, make us look a bit of a joke to others. From speaking to a parent of a young player the shenanigans that go on behind the scenes when trying to sell a player, or push certain agents the way of a young player it's all very much car crash stuff compared to the professionalism of other clubs. And yet, we seem to have a healthy return of former players which flies in the face of that!

We are a bit of an enigma and I guess the truth might not be as bad as we fear, but not as good as we would hope for. I look forward to hearing TTs thoughts once the sale of the ground .....or maybe just the football club goes through soon!

[1874HAFC]

My dear friend the ground is not split from the club we are merely tenants. Another company purchased the stadium over 20 years ago and owns the property. We are tenants of that property company. Like most clubs our size we could never afford to purchase or maintain our own stadium. When McGowan raised the money to buy the stadium we are all old enough to know we where homeless and skint. I have no idea who Niall is although I understand his frustrations. We scream for focus on football and then start talking about another mans property interests and why would you care about this person Niall's business affairs and what possible difference could it make whether he's a successful business man or a failed business man working for a company, a student or unemployed, surely it's a simple case of what he says either has merit or doesn't have merit and we must all make up our own minds but the sooner the average supporter that is interested accepts we are simply tenants like Clyde and I believe the women also have a lease there and god knows how many businesses are there. In all honesty I don't go to every game but the games I've been to the stadium appears to be really well kept compared to some I have been at.

[manxaccie]

Thanks Niall.

[Beckford]

Well for a start a failed business man was allowed to turn our club shop into a snake oil shop, making said club into an absoloute embarassment. This was a clear symbol of how little importance the football club was to our "landlord". The snake oil shop then became a failed business venture. Who benifited from this venture that further damaged accies football clubs reputation?

As already covered numerous times in other threads, this stadium was designed and built to ensure the long term future of the football club. The deliberate miss management and driving out of council tennants, re-structuring and dual companies owning the club and stadium was deliberately created to ensure the current situation.

[Beckford]

Oh and to say that accies are just tennants like clyde is beyond contempt, you are surely taking the proverbial or at least totaly incapable of understanding the issue here. This argument alone makes your post a joke.

[TerracingTomas]

Like most clubs our size we could never afford to purchase or maintain our own stadium.

Geezo A lesson in Liz Truss economics

The stadium was designed in the way it was with considerable office accommodation to provide the club with an additional income stream over and above football generated revenue. The deal with South Lanarkshire Council to occupy the North Stand for 20 years did just that providing a minimum of £6 million income more than enough to clear the mortgage and finance maintenance. Not forgetting the revenue from trackside advertising, stadium sponsorship and hospitality which accrue to the stadium company despite being generated by the clubs’ presence. Which explains why Mcgoofey constantly bangs on about his social conscience model because he can’t acknowledge the reality of sponsors being attracted by the football club. Mcgoofeys business incompetence has seen the loss of SLC as a tenant as well as the loss of the bank account money and the stadium remortgaged twice. Whereas Ronnie clears 3/5 million in debt and delivers Premiership football. If only Ronnie had bought the stadium as well as the club we would probably be top six and playing in Europe.

Last season Mcgoofey and his cronies tried to shut down We are Hamilton’s Facebook page by banning the admin guys after Strains’ mobile phone debacle. This season he’s trying to rewrite history on this site via his stooges. Fortunately Accies fans are an intelligent bunch and can make their own minds up.

Ps there are 2 groups of individuals in this world it’s not worth debating with as they live a virtual reality world. Trumps’ acolytes and Mcgoofeys’. For the election was stolen read social conscience model.

Meanwhile in the real world we await announcements re ownership, further signings, the new seasons strip. Come on Serif put us out of our misery. Are u the genuine new controlling owner or not.

[porcupine]

The stadium was designed in the way it was with considerable office accommodation to provide the club with an additional income stream over and above football generated revenue. The deal with South Lanarkshire Council to occupy the North Stand for 20 years did just that providing a minimum of £6 million income more than enough to clear the mortgage and finance maintenance.

Any supporter who's been around since the homeless days, will probably have the same opinion, TT. Those who have only recently jumped on the train, may have a skewed version of reality. However it's probably fair to say that Covid19 did not help the situation regarding a lease renewal, where hybrid working for many staff became the new way of 'being at the office'.

It would seem that there should have been plenty of time available to enter into meaningful discussions on a possible compromise, rather that it be a surprise that SLC was not renewing its lease. Perhaps, by then, SLC Councillors had already discovered where the stadium ownership lay, and decided that they could no longer support such a venture where any further investment was not seen to benefiting its electorate, but generating profit for a legally separate company's shareholders.

Nothing is going to change what the present reality is, and that is we are but tenants, who are either able to pay probably escalating regular rental increases, or seek an alternative stadium elsewhere in SLC at some point.

[1874HAFC]

Regarding his business skills he is clearly controlling the whole show always has probably always will. I think we where safer when he owned the club we all know he paid every wage and every creditor over a 10 year period .....You point out Mr Macdonald bought the club only and you wished he had bought the stadium so you have acknowledged someone else must have bought the stadium who would you imagine that could be, maybe the man who signed for the loan to refinance the stadium and yes the personal guarantee back at the start yes it was one Mr Colin McGowan, you know most directors are all close personal friends of his I think they are a magnificent team of men great football people and as for McGowan a pretty good money raiser. I think you will agree although our season book money must have helped him ..with him now selling the club I am sure the almost 70 year old pensioner will keep himself busy with community events at his stadium. Our average supporter only needs the stadium for 25 x 90minits a year so it makes sense to do other stuff that gets our club more money or would you prefer it shut between games.

[PrideOfLanarkshire]

Regarding his business skills he is clearly controlling the whole show always has probably always will. I think we where safer when he owned the club we all know he paid every wage and every creditor over a 10 year period .....You point out Mr Macdonald bought the club only and you wished he had bought the stadium so you have acknowledged someone else must have bought the stadium who would you imagine that could be, maybe the man who signed for the loan to refinance the stadium and yes the personal guarantee back at the start yes it was one Mr Colin McGowan, you know most directors are all close personal friends of his I think they are a magnificent team of men great football people and as for McGowan a pretty good money raiser. I think you will agree although our season book money must have helped him ..with him now selling the club I am sure the almost 70 year old pensioner will keep himself busy with community events at his stadium. Our average supporter only needs the stadium for 25 x 90minits a year so it makes sense to do other stuff that gets our club more money or would you prefer it shut between games.

Nice switching of accounts Niall, smart way to avoid the questions you have been asked.

Have a day off.