Accies4ever wrote:I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.
There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.
We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.
To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.
Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.
If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.
Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.
For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.
Can we all agree on that?
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right
Accies4ever wrote:I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.
There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.
We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.
To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.
Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.
If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.
Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.
For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.
Can we all agree on that?
redandwhite1874 wrote:Accies4ever wrote:I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.
There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.
We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.
To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.
Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.
If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.
Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.
For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.
Can we all agree on that?
Can we agree? No.
For one thing you are giving him to the end of the season on one hand but also making it clear that he really only has until the split. You also say there are signs of 'failure' after 7 games. Not poor form or disappointing results etc but 'failure' - I think that it is too soon to use such terms; without ignoring the poor form we are in.
Arguably Alex Neil would have 'failed' if he hadn't got us into the premier league last year. In terms of the players, resources, consistency of set up etc and our opponents (anyone remember some of the poor results against part timers? and the downright unprofessional conduct of the manager on the pitch?) we had last year then I would argue failure to go up would have been disappointing. He got up and did great things. And whilst a great manager it must be recognised that our results were unsustainable - we done great but everything went for us and everyone was on form etc. It wouldn't have taken much to throw things off but what we have been faced with is perhaps the biggest overhaul at the club since 2003 and that was always going to be a huge task to recover from. Not many SPFL clubs could survive the loss of a £1million player alone; never mind losing Neil (as a player), MAC and an important coach at the same time.
At the same time the previous management team/club didn't seem to have a plan to replace Tony (a totally predictable possibility) and to replace Jason as the back up striker when they let him go.
The one thing I certainly won't agree with is the proposal to throw money at the squad. Its not what we are about and not how we came to be successful in the first place. If we brought in an experienced manager would he also be faced with a 7 game window before he faces 'failure' tags?
I have said before, that bringing in a new management team that didn't include experience was a risk - although I said that when Alex and Frankie were appointed so I have spoken rubbish before
redandwhite1874 wrote:Accies4ever wrote:I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.
There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.
We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.
To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.
Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.
If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.
Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.
For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.
Can we all agree on that?
Can we agree? No.
For one thing you are giving him to the end of the season on one hand but also making it clear that he really only has until the split. You also say there are signs of 'failure' after 7 games. Not poor form or disappointing results etc but 'failure' - I think that it is too soon to use such terms; without ignoring the poor form we are in.
Arguably Alex Neil would have 'failed' if he hadn't got us into the premier league last year. In terms of the players, resources, consistency of set up etc and our opponents (anyone remember some of the poor results against part timers? and the downright unprofessional conduct of the manager on the pitch?) we had last year then I would argue failure to go up would have been disappointing. He got up and did great things. And whilst a great manager it must be recognised that our results were unsustainable - we done great but everything went for us and everyone was on form etc. It wouldn't have taken much to throw things off but what we have been faced with is perhaps the biggest overhaul at the club since 2003 and that was always going to be a huge task to recover from. Not many SPFL clubs could survive the loss of a £1million player alone; never mind losing Neil (as a player), MAC and an important coach at the same time.
At the same time the previous management team/club didn't seem to have a plan to replace Tony (a totally predictable possibility) and to replace Jason as the back up striker when they let him go.
The one thing I certainly won't agree with is the proposal to throw money at the squad. Its not what we are about and not how we came to be successful in the first place. If we brought in an experienced manager would he also be faced with a 7 game window before he faces 'failure' tags?
I have said before, that bringing in a new management team that didn't include experience was a risk - although I said that when Alex and Frankie were appointed so I have spoken rubbish before
Accies4ever wrote:Serious question to those who would not want Canning/Swailes judged in this season's performances
Q: Say we don't achieve a top 6 position finish, and we continue to gain points at the current rate of 0.33 pts per game into next season, at what point who you call for a change in management/boardroom?
Clint Aruss wrote:Canning was/is a fine player, but has no credentials as a manager. - because he isn't one. Billy Reid groomed Alex I think, particularly through his long periods of injury where he assisted in the dugout, and took over from him with his own version of how the game should be played. It was a success. He has gone, and I think the club has missed an opportunity to appoint someone who has genuine managerial potential, but more importantly, contacts in the industry. Gennaro Gattuso might have played for The Rangers, but he also played for Milan, and has a pedigree that cannot be questioned. Could he manage at spl level? Yes he could! Could he bring in players? Yes he could! Could he have done a job at Accies? Yes he could!
Time will tell on Canning, and we won't be relegated, but going 2 down against Aberdeen, his body language was poor, head down and trudging up to the restart was not encouraging I'm sure to the team. Will he be the manager next season? The jury is out.....but anything less than top 6 will not be appropriate given the start he had.
redandwhite1874 wrote:Accies4ever wrote:
So if we get rid of Martin and get an experienced managed, he spends say £300k in the transfer market; what does he have to do in the first 15 games to avoid the sack; and then the next 15 etc etc ?
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