Canning as manager...Success or not?

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Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:20 pm

It is likely too soon to judge, but what are your thoughts on the wisdom of appointing Martin (and his backroom staff) to that position?

What would you deem to be an acceptable finishing position, to deem his appointment as a success?

To be honest, I did question his appointment at the time, but I'm happy to give our own people a chance.
However, for me, if we don't achieve a top 6 finish, that would be deemed as a failure.

Of course, finishing 6th position or better would buy him more time and the real test would be next season.

Your thoughts?
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby H9crx » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:49 pm

We need goals and he signes a player who cant play for two weeks!
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby accies4life » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:19 am

I'm fully prepared to write off this season now, where ever we finish imo, will be a great achievement.

I'm pleased with the staff appointments, Boozy and Swailes i think will do really well.

When it comes to Canning i'm still unsure, I don't feel he'll be a flop, but i don't feel he'll be a success either, have to leave that up to time.

Next season is when he should be judged imo opinion, because that will now be his team, there will be no where to hide, no excuses if things aren't going well.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby WILF » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:48 am

It will take him time to adapt to the new role. He's taken on the role at a time in his career when he wasn't expecting it and I believe will grow into it. He's also taken on the role at the most successful and also turbulent time in recent years and I suspect Canning himself will be personally missing the influence of Alex Tony and Frankie. He's also had a nitemare run of opening fixtures in his first few games!! By all accounts though he is a clever lad and is surrounded by really good people in an excellent structure. I've seen enough v Dundee and Killie to suggest he's finding his feet. Goals will come and the team is playing well. I'm happy he got the job and continues to work in line with the club ethos and style.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:10 am

WILF wrote:It will take him time to adapt to the new role. He's taken on the role at a time in his career when he wasn't expecting it and I believe will grow into it. He's also taken on the role at the most successful and also turbulent time in recent years and I suspect Canning himself will be personally missing the influence of Alex Tony and Frankie. He's also had a nitemare run of opening fixtures in his first few games!! By all accounts though he is a clever lad and is surrounded by really good people in an excellent structure. I've seen enough v Dundee and Killie to suggest he's finding his feet. Goals will come and the team is playing well. I'm happy he got the job and continues to work in line with the club ethos and style.


Spot on.

The only thing I would add is that bringing back Jason was not a good move for me, albeit it was part of the chaos surrounding Martin getting the job.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:34 am

All very fair points.

Don't agree however with the opinion that we should just "write off" the rest of this season.
It's not an attitude I'm sure that Martin and co, will be taking.

Next season is the time we should judge Canning and his team.
I'm sure his remit for next season will be to keep us in the SPL.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:22 pm

I think we all know why Scotland came back.

At the time he was released, it was a combination of Scotland wanting more game time and the club not really needing his services any more.

When the club realised that MAC was getting the "shove", the club panicked and got Scotland back. It was the easy option.
Not saying it was the correct decision however, but I do like Scotland.
He's far from the quickest, but he does give it his all.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Gaspode » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:25 pm

Accies4ever wrote:I think we all know why Scotland came back.

At the time he was released, it was a combination of Scotland wanting more game time and the club not really needing his services any more.

When the club realised that MAC was getting the "shove", the club panicked and got Scotland back. It was the easy option.
Not saying it was the correct decision however, but I do like Scotland.
He's far from the quickest, but he does give it his all.

I think the way we play suits Jason and us. He is much better at holding up the ball and bringing our players in to the game than Mac was. Admittedly his work rate is less than Macs was.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:31 pm

Accies4ever wrote:I think we all know why Scotland came back.

At the time he was released, it was a combination of Scotland wanting more game time and the club not really needing his services any more.

When the club realised that MAC was getting the "shove", the club panicked and got Scotland back. It was the easy option.
Not saying it was the correct decision however, but I do like Scotland.
He's far from the quickest, but he does give it his all.


Not perhaps a point just for Martin; but as soon as we let Jason go we should have had a replacement teed up - in the event got MAC got injured or as it turned out went in the huff. The club didn't have that and with so many games in January that looks to me like a mistake. WE judged him not good enough so to bring him back in is weird; and that we were able to in terms of no one else exactly snapped him up perhaps tells a story as well. We now have nigel who it looks wont play until more than 2 weeks after the window closed; and that knocks further into the season in terms of him settling in within the team.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Alexander the Great » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:35 pm

cast judgement at the split, top 6 success bottom 6 failure.
daft donnachie is thicker than the lenses on they daft specs he wears !
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Mrsweetleftfoot » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:52 pm

It would very bad if we don't manage to hold on to top 6 from this position.

We probably only need 4/5 more points to secure top 6.

However, I would still side with those who have expressed loftier ambitions.....catch Dundee Utd!!

It doesn't matter what people's opinion of Accies was at the start.....we have 41 points after 26 matches and lie 5th, 5 points adrift of a potential European spot, assuming Celtic win the Scottish Cup.

This is our current reality!!

Canning must steer us into top 6 first and then try and push on post split!
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Mrsweetleftfoot » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:56 pm

......apologies, I stand corrected, Scottish cup runner up would qualify for Europa Lge if winners have Champs Lge berth.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:00 pm

Alexander the Great wrote:cast judgement at the split, top 6 success bottom 6 failure.


100% agree.

I would go as far as saying if we don't achieve a top 6 split, we should be looking to replace Canning (as manager) in the summer.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:06 pm

Accies4ever wrote:
Alexander the Great wrote:cast judgement at the split, top 6 success bottom 6 failure.


100% agree.

I would go as far as saying if we don't achieve a top 6 split, we should be looking to replace Canning (as manager) in the summer.


Can't agree with that at all and I am content the club don't see it that way either. Sacking an Accies manager for say 7th or 8th in the top division would be interesting.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:31 pm

redandwhite1874 wrote:
Accies4ever wrote:
Alexander the Great wrote:cast judgement at the split, top 6 success bottom 6 failure.


100% agree.

I would go as far as saying if we don't achieve a top 6 split, we should be looking to replace Canning (as manager) in the summer.


Can't agree with that at all and I am content the club don't see it that way either. Sacking an Accies manager for say 7th or 8th in the top division would be interesting.


This, until the split is all conjecture, but you state 7th or 8th as if he would have achieved that from scratch.
When Canning took over we were in 3rd position and 39pts out of 20 games played. At that point a European place was well within grasp.
Since Canning took over we've gained 2pts from a possible 18, and slipped to 5th.
To slip further (ie out of a top 6 position) would not be acceptable. I would deem it to be a failure and I would want Canning removed in the close season.

It's maybe harsh and obviously not all down to Canning, but as I've said before it's a results driven business.
Wins = success, Losses = failure.
Surely Martin understood that when he took over.

P.S. I actually still believe we'll achieve a top 6 and Canning will remain in place.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:43 pm

When Canning took over we were in 3rd position and 39pts out of 20 games played. At that point a European place was well within grasp.
Since Canning took over we've gained 2pts from a possible 18, and slipped to 5th.

Question

2 pts from 18, means an average of 0.33 pts per game.
based upon the last 6 games, are Accies not at the bottom of the league now for recent results?

Ok we played Dundee Utd and Celtic, but we've also played Dundee, Kilmarnock, Partick and ICT.
The last 4 not exactly being big hitters.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby redandwhite1874 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:18 pm

I don't think we are in the business of telling MC that acceptability is maintaining a once in a lifetime performance by Accies or even of comparing him in any way to what was clearly an unsustainable level. let alone to do that in the middle of coaching turmoil, the single best player leaving and the club struggling to replace him and the striker who was the man who played there thro our superb results.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Alexander the Great » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:31 am

Accies4ever wrote:
Alexander the Great wrote:cast judgement at the split, top 6 success bottom 6 failure.


100% agree.

I would go as far as saying if we don't achieve a top 6 split, we should be looking to replace Canning (as manager) in the summer.



yes, we were 10 points in front of Dundee with 10 games to go to split when he got the job on a full time basis if that cant get you a top six finish your in the wrong job, I also think our main challengers to this could be st johnstone and the game with them could be vital, but hopefully we will be looking more to Dundee united above us who do have a dodgy defence maybe due to their style of play.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:20 pm

First of all, I don't have anything against big Martin.
He's Accies through and through, and I'm desperate for him to succeed.

But take any emotion out of it.
All I'm saying is, given the position we were in when Alex left, where all we require to secure a top 6 was a handful of points with 13 games to achieve that, if we don't achieve at least that, then it has to be seen as a failure.

Put it this way. Next season, if we end up picking up points at the rate we currently are, we'll be relegated.

The real test for Canning will be the period where we play St Mirren, Ross Co, Motherwell and St Johnstone.
If we do well (points wise) in these games, we'll be fine.
If we struggle, then top 6 may well be "gone".


I want Accies to finish as high up the league as possible and we need to perform well in every game between now and end of season. Yes, have academy players on the bench, but play our strongest XI every game.
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Re: Canning as manager...Success or not?

Postby Accies4ever » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:56 pm

If you recall when Colin Miller was appointed as Accies manager early 2000s, he was a disaster.
We went through a really poor run of games, with only a scrappy 1-0 win over St Mirren in the cup at Firhill, I believe his only win.
Colin was removed after about half a season.

Colin was a great player for us (I think a left-back), but the point I'm making is just because someone did really well for us as a player, doesn't automatically make them a good/successful manager.

Chris Hillcoat was another example of that.

Alex Neil has that fight to win on and off the park, and that "killer" touch will set him up well for managerial success.
Couple that with his technical and tactical awareness.

Martin, from what I have heard of him, is a gentleman and to paraphrase is a gentle giant.
That might not be the qualities required of a manager.

I do wish him well, and hope he does turn things around, but the club need to have a plan B in mind, if it all goes pear-shaped.
Otherwise the supporters will eventually turn on the board, if results don't start improving.

By all means give Martin until the end of the season, but if we fail to achieve top 6 and the performances and results don't come, I don't want us going into next season with a lame duck management team.
From 7th January until the end of the season is plenty time to evaluate a manager.

Anyway, let's get the ball rolling with a win today against the dons.
I'm going to be optimistic and say 1-0 to Accies.
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