Canning as manager...Success or not?

[redandwhite1874]

Simply, if I reach a breaking point and think someone should go; I would then say that I am no longer supportive of them. Hopeful for them but how can you support what you have decided is a mistake.

I did not say that I would never question anyone's support. I said that I have never questioned anyone's support of the club -

I have been clear we had no choice to accept Norwich's offer as our commitment to players is they can go if the deal is right for the club; if we had knocked back tony that commitment would have been seen as worthless across current and future players.

Re when i would call for a change at Accies - i have already said that football cannot be about you need to achieve x and y or you are gone. We are never going to find consensus here; i cannot fathom judging a manager after 7 games and i cannot see why or how Martin won't be in charge come August, whilst you are anticipating problems in both Martin's and the boards performance and decision making - in a supportive way. But i am 'biased' perhaps as i think he will keep us in the top six or if not then match our 2010 final position.

Can you never actually answer a question?
Are you secretly a board member or a staff member at Accies?

Yes I am Martin Canning and I have more respect for folk who say I should go now, than folk who think I should go now but can't bring themselves to say it and are lining up some criteria to when they think it would be acceptable to voice their actual opinion - is it the split or the end of the season?

[Accies4ever]

Simple poll guys.
All I'm looking for is a YES / NO / UNSURE answer.

Given all that's happened at the club over the last month or so, but also that we had 39pts out of 20 games and were sitting in 3rd position when Alex left:

1....If Accies fail to achieve a top 6 finish this season, should the club look to change management in the close season.

My answer is YES.

2....If Accies do get a top 6 and it looks like present management are turning things around, should the present management be allowed to continue to lead us into the new season.

My answer is YES.

Can I please have your responses.

What has made you change from your stated position that MC should be judged at the end of the season?

My answers are No and Yes; whilst recognising that there are more than 2 outcomes to our season.

Why not add:

3)If he stays until august and then loses his first 5 games should he go then ? etc etc.

How is losing the first 5 games in August, an outcome to this season?
You don't have the brains you were born with.

[redandwhite1874]

Simple poll guys.
All I'm looking for is a YES / NO / UNSURE answer.

Given all that's happened at the club over the last month or so, but also that we had 39pts out of 20 games and were sitting in 3rd position when Alex left:

1....If Accies fail to achieve a top 6 finish this season, should the club look to change management in the close season.

My answer is YES.

2....If Accies do get a top 6 and it looks like present management are turning things around, should the present management be allowed to continue to lead us into the new season.

My answer is YES.

Can I please have your responses.

What has made you change from your stated position that MC should be judged at the end of the season?

My answers are No and Yes; whilst recognising that there are more than 2 outcomes to our season.

Why not add:

3)If he stays until august and then loses his first 5 games should he go then ? etc etc.

How is losing the first 5 games in August, an outcome to this season?
You don't have the brains you were born with.

OK thanks for your continued support but I need to go now; we have a big game tomorrow and I haven't absolutely decided on the line up so I am going to give that some thought. By the way there was no buy out clause for Tony

[RyanT]

Maybe give it a few more games, fellas. He's had huge boots to fill, and hasn't really lost any matches that we should 100% have won yet.

The results in the 3 games following the Celtic game tomorrow will go a long way to showing whether or not MC can succeed or not. We *should* be beating St. Mirren, Ross County, and Motherwell, and if we can't, there is obviously an issue.

[redandwhite1874]

Change of plan, I am staying up to watch MoTD and Les will phone me later with the team he has picked.

How about a poll of did the same poster say all of the following statements - A simple yes or no?

Next season is the time we should judge Canning and his team

I would go as far as saying if we don't achieve a top 6 split, we should be looking to replace Canning (as manager) in the summer.

P.S. I actually still believe we'll achieve a top 6 and Canning will remain in place.

To slip further (ie out of a top 6 position) would not be acceptable. I would deem it to be a failure and I would want Canning removed in the close season

From 7th January until the end of the season is plenty time to evaluate a manager.

They shouldn't have gone for another untried player/coach, in the blind hope that he'll be Alex mark II

I truly believe that the decisions of late have been made more in the quest to get as much money into the club (no matter how well intentioned) over the general health of the team.

My opinion (and that's all it is), is the club acted more than hastily to get rid of our top player

Examples of this was cashing in on 22, when really there wasn't a need to get rid of him now

Canning as manager...Success or not?

They'll say anything to defend their position.

It may work out, but it saddens me to say, but unless the board honesty and objectively appraise the club's situation in the close season, I believe that we'll continue to limp on under the existing management team until we perhaps reach a point of no return.

I would never doubt anybody's sincerity and I believe the the board do act in the best interest....absolutely.

I'm more than content to give him until the close season to judge him

Do I believe that the club's current ethos is good. No, I believe it's fantastic.

I will keep working 100% to turn things around, I think we have the board, management and players to succeed here; but the full support of the fans in good times and the bad will be a great help. all the best, cheers Martin C

[Accies4ever]

Maybe if you spent less time on this Forum Martin, and more time with the players, results would be better

[Accies4ever]

What a deeply sad individual you really are redandwhite1874

[redandwhite1874]

What a deeply sad individual you really are redandwhite1874

Please call me Martin. Not sure training the players this late before a game is a good idea though !

So just confirm are you judging me now, at the split, the end of the season or next season? And do you rate the board or think they will say anything to defend their position. Was the chairman sincere when he told us that Tony going was part of our (and yours) ethos or did they just go for the money and acted hastily.

Do you think I will 'limp on' or keep us in the top 6 - you seem to have mistakenly posted both opinions.

Anyway, thanks for your total and unequivocal support; the backing of the fans in good and bad times will help us get to where we all want to be. Cheers Martin

[redandwhite1874]

What a deeply sad individual you really are redandwhite1874

During your 2 posts in a row did you actually have to check yourself that you were really responsible for all those wide and varied opinions? Perhaps you can understand now how hard it is to reply to such differing positions from the same poster on the same thread.

Sorry for pretending I was Martin Canning just going along with your sarcasm.

All the best.

Yours, Ronnie

[glasgow accie]

coming across as a bit of a knob ^^^^^

[Accies4ever]

I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong, but when Alex took over the manager's role, did he not take time out of the team to see things from the sidelines.

Could it be that Canning is so desperate to turn things round, that he's playing himself, rather than taking a step back to see the "big picture".

[Accies4ever]

The next 5 games are crucial, probably more for Martin Canning than Accies, if that makes sense.

If Martin can pull the iron out of the fire and secure a top 6, it would take huge pressure off the guy and in my opinion should secure his tenure into next season.

However if we continue to stumble and fall, then his time (albeit short lived) should be up, come close season.

P.S.
Decision during the close season shouldn't just be limited to Martin, but also his full backroom team.

[porcupine]

I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong, but when Alex took over the manager's role, did he not take time out of the team to see things from the sidelines.

Could it be that Canning is so desperate to turn things round, that he's playing himself, rather than taking a step back to see the "big picture".

I posted that suggestion a couple of weeks back!! Clearly, the Manager does not read the forum. Maybe he is too busy watching our next opponents, but this needs to be done.

Anyone old enough will remember Billy McLaren, one of our very successful part time managers, who sat in the old DP stand and observed/coached/shouted from there at his team. Convince me I am wrong, but I cannot see how you can see what is happening all over the park, when you are playing & concentrating on your own game at the same time. Managers HAVE to stand back and see what their staff are doing, regardless of whether it is football, or any other job. Regardless of the need to get three points on Saturday at Paisley, and the p8sh poor view from the stands there, Martin would be well advised to delegate his role to Devlin (or Tena if available) and see at least the first half, from the back row of the stand, and still have his boots on!!

[Accies4ever]

I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong, but when Alex took over the manager's role, did he not take time out of the team to see things from the sidelines.

Could it be that Canning is so desperate to turn things round, that he's playing himself, rather than taking a step back to see the "big picture".

I posted that suggestion a couple of weeks back!! Clearly, the Manager does not read the forum. Maybe he is too busy watching our next opponents, but this needs to be done.

Anyone old enough will remember Billy McLaren, one of our very successful part time managers, who sat in the old DP stand and observed/coached/shouted from there at his team. Convince me I am wrong, but I cannot see how you can see what is happening all over the park, when you are playing & concentrating on your own game at the same time. Managers HAVE to stand back and see what their staff are doing, regardless of whether it is football, or any other job. Regardless of the need to get three points on Saturday at Paisley, and the p8sh poor view from the stands there, Martin would be well advised to delegate his role to Devlin (or Tena if available) and see at least the first half, from the back row of the stand, and still have his boots on!!

Sometimes, the sign of experience or at least a cool head, is taking time to consider all options, rather than rushing in.
I don't doubt Canning's honesty and sincerity for a moment, but I believe his "freshness" and over-eagerness is not allowing him that breathing space, all managers require. In a nutshell he's too keen to please, which in the end, may be his downfall.

[Accies4ever]

The 5 games after the split don't mean much.
Permit me to explain.

If we achieve top 6, we're going to be so far behind 1st, 2nd, etc that we'll never get a Euro place.
If we fail to achieve top 6, we're going to be so far ahead of 10th, 11th and 12th that there's no fear of relegation.

In either case, that's the time to experiment with the team and blood young players, for next season.
I do appreciate that positions equal money, but as far as the big picture is concerned, blooding young players and giving them valuable game time is more important.

What do you think?

[porcupine]

The 5 games after the split don't mean much.
Permit me to explain.

If we achieve top 6, we're going to be so far behind 1st, 2nd, etc that we'll never get a Euro place.
If we fail to achieve top 6, we're going to be so far ahead of 10th, 11th and 12th that there's no fear of relegation.

In either case, that's the time to experiment with the team and blood young players, for next season.
I do appreciate that positions equal money, but as far as the big picture is concerned, blooding young players and giving them valuable game time is more important.

What do you think?

Almost too sensible a suggestion for this forum!! Absolutely correct approach, but some defeatists will no doubt see flaws in this

[Clint Aruss]

I'm no defeatist, but at the risk of identifying a flaw, does the final placing in the division not equate to a cash award at the end of the season?

[Clint Aruss]

D'oh, just noticed you mention this....but is cash not needed to fund the youth academy?

[Joemcc]

I think we have to see a top 6 finish as a minimum aim now.

If we end up in the bottom six I would not be confident at all that we could avoid the relegation playoff - remember last season where Hibs went into freefall and ended up in the playoffs totally unexpectedly.

We have played more games than anyone else at this point so its difficult to measure but a top 6 finish would ensure that we have no worries going into the last 5 games. It would also guarantee us at least the pot of money for 6th place as a minimum return and we could use those last 5 games to 'blood' youth as others have said (although this doesn't sound attractive from a casual spectators point of view).

We really have to get points from our next 4 games but our lack of goals is worrying. Just in December I would have expected at least 9 points from our next 4 games but that isn't going to be easy now - no goals and low team confidence.

Anyway I'll be at Paisley on Saturday hoping for the start of a revival in our fortunes.

[Accies4ever]

I think we have to see a top 6 finish as a minimum aim now.

If we end up in the bottom six I would not be confident at all that we could avoid the relegation playoff - remember last season where Hibs went into freefall and ended up in the playoffs totally unexpectedly.

We have played more games than anyone else at this point so its difficult to measure but a top 6 finish would ensure that we have no worries going into the last 5 games. It would also guarantee us at least the pot of money for 6th place as a minimum return and we could use those last 5 games to 'blood' youth as others have said (although this doesn't sound attractive from a casual spectators point of view).

We really have to get points from our next 4 games but our lack of goals is worrying. Just in December I would have expected at least 9 points from our next 4 games but that isn't going to be easy now - no goals and low team confidence.

Anyway I'll be at Paisley on Saturday hoping for the start of a revival in our fortunes.

I've always set top 6 as the benchmark, but as an indicator how the new management team are performing.
Haven't actually calculated it out (cause I can't be bothered) but I don't think we can be relegated now, even if all results go against us from now until end of the season.