Canning as manager...Success or not?

[Accies4ever]

I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.

There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.

We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.

To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.

Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.

If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.

Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.

For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.

Can we all agree on that?

[Euan]

I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.

There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.

We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.

To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.

Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.

If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.

Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.

For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.

Can we all agree on that?

Agreed

[Alfie Olek]

Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right

A good balanced piece Accies4ever but if it does come down to this in the close season and I hope not, then I think there will be a number of interpretations of exactly what is meant by backing whoever is manager money wise. The club will expect any initial gaps/weaknesses in the squad to be filled by players from the development team. Fair enough although the jump to the first team particularly one playing in the top flight is no mean feat. The Crawfords, Gordons and Hendries had several seasons in the Championship to really develop. Once that is done presumably there will be a budget to bring in out of contract proven senior players or young players that someone has missed. All the evidence suggests that the most the club is currently prepared to pay for a player is mid range 5 figures. I would hope there is just a bit more in the pot for an ambitious signing or two too complement our youth, someone in the 25 to 28 age group who is at their peak and not looking for last pay check. And NO Im not advocating throwing significant sums on transfer fees. £200,000+ of a transfer pot if required. Next seasons league is going to be a much harder nut to crack.

[redandwhite1874]

I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.

There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.

We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.

To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.

Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.

If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.

Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.

For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.

Can we all agree on that?

Can we agree? No.

For one thing you are giving him to the end of the season on one hand but also making it clear that he really only has until the split. You also say there are signs of 'failure' after 7 games. Not poor form or disappointing results etc but 'failure' - I think that it is too soon to use such terms; without ignoring the poor form we are in.

Arguably Alex Neil would have 'failed' if he hadn't got us into the premier league last year. In terms of the players, resources, consistency of set up etc and our opponents (anyone remember some of the poor results against part timers? and the downright unprofessional conduct of the manager on the pitch?) we had last year then I would argue failure to go up would have been disappointing. He got up and did great things. And whilst a great manager it must be recognised that our results were unsustainable - we done great but everything went for us and everyone was on form etc. It wouldn't have taken much to throw things off but what we have been faced with is perhaps the biggest overhaul at the club since 2003 and that was always going to be a huge task to recover from. Not many SPFL clubs could survive the loss of a £1million player alone; never mind losing Neil (as a player), MAC and an important coach at the same time.

At the same time the previous management team/club didn't seem to have a plan to replace Tony (a totally predictable possibility) and to replace Jason as the back up striker when they let him go.

The one thing I certainly won't agree with is the proposal to throw money at the squad. Its not what we are about and not how we came to be successful in the first place. If we brought in an experienced manager would he also be faced with a 7 game window before he faces 'failure' tags?

I have said before, that bringing in a new management team that didn't include experience was a risk - although I said that when Alex and Frankie were appointed so I have spoken rubbish before

[Gaspode]

I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.

There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.

We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.

To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.

Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.

If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.

Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.

For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.

Can we all agree on that?

Can we agree? No.

For one thing you are giving him to the end of the season on one hand but also making it clear that he really only has until the split. You also say there are signs of 'failure' after 7 games. Not poor form or disappointing results etc but 'failure' - I think that it is too soon to use such terms; without ignoring the poor form we are in.

Arguably Alex Neil would have 'failed' if he hadn't got us into the premier league last year. In terms of the players, resources, consistency of set up etc and our opponents (anyone remember some of the poor results against part timers? and the downright unprofessional conduct of the manager on the pitch?) we had last year then I would argue failure to go up would have been disappointing. He got up and did great things. And whilst a great manager it must be recognised that our results were unsustainable - we done great but everything went for us and everyone was on form etc. It wouldn't have taken much to throw things off but what we have been faced with is perhaps the biggest overhaul at the club since 2003 and that was always going to be a huge task to recover from. Not many SPFL clubs could survive the loss of a £1million player alone; never mind losing Neil (as a player), MAC and an important coach at the same time.

At the same time the previous management team/club didn't seem to have a plan to replace Tony (a totally predictable possibility) and to replace Jason as the back up striker when they let him go.

The one thing I certainly won't agree with is the proposal to throw money at the squad. Its not what we are about and not how we came to be successful in the first place. If we brought in an experienced manager would he also be faced with a 7 game window before he faces 'failure' tags?

I have said before, that bringing in a new management team that didn't include experience was a risk - although I said that when Alex and Frankie were appointed so I have spoken rubbish before

Excellent post.

[Accies4ever]

I think a consensus is developing here and a common theme.
That's perhaps out of sheer frustration of how badly the team is performing.

There's people (like myself) who feel that Canning wasn't the correct managerial choice from the get-go and others who either think he was or are of the opinion to "give him a chance".
I actually think we're not that far apart.

We are in a fortunate position that relegation isn't a threat this season, but any manager must have objectives to meet, otherwise how can we judge if they are successful or not.

To achieve a top 6 position, from where Alex left us, is a very moderate objective, so to now deny that this matters is frankly crazy.

Surely we can agree, that this goal (top 6) must be met.
If Canning meets that objective, then he can strengthen in the summer and lead us into next season.
However if he can't achieve that moderate objective, then there's something seriously wrong here, even taking into account 22 and Neil leaving.

If we don't get top 6, I for one will want the structure changed and unfortunately for Canning (and frankly Swailes) it means it's time to go.
It's nothing against these guys, after all not everyone makes a good manager/assistant manager and perhaps it's came too early for them, but ask yourself this....Do you really want to go into next season knowing the managerial team isn't achieving.
Next season with Hearts and perhaps Rangers/Hibs back in the SPL, it'll be tougher for Accies. We can't wait for 10, 15 maybe 20 games into the season where we've struggled and changing the manager at that point will be too late to stop us being relegated.

Life is tough, but when the signs of failure are already there and we do nothing about it, then we can't complain when we are back in the Championship, or even worse.

For me, Canning has yet to prove himself. If he really and truly wants to be a manager, he's got to step up and sort this mess out. Give him until the end of the season. We owe him that much at least.
But if he fails, then let's not dilly-dally about.
Use the close season to get a new experienced manager in place, give him the backing (money wise) to get things right and give ourselves a good fighting chance to stay in the SPL.

Can we all agree on that?

Can we agree? No.

For one thing you are giving him to the end of the season on one hand but also making it clear that he really only has until the split. You also say there are signs of 'failure' after 7 games. Not poor form or disappointing results etc but 'failure' - I think that it is too soon to use such terms; without ignoring the poor form we are in.

Arguably Alex Neil would have 'failed' if he hadn't got us into the premier league last year. In terms of the players, resources, consistency of set up etc and our opponents (anyone remember some of the poor results against part timers? and the downright unprofessional conduct of the manager on the pitch?) we had last year then I would argue failure to go up would have been disappointing. He got up and did great things. And whilst a great manager it must be recognised that our results were unsustainable - we done great but everything went for us and everyone was on form etc. It wouldn't have taken much to throw things off but what we have been faced with is perhaps the biggest overhaul at the club since 2003 and that was always going to be a huge task to recover from. Not many SPFL clubs could survive the loss of a £1million player alone; never mind losing Neil (as a player), MAC and an important coach at the same time.

At the same time the previous management team/club didn't seem to have a plan to replace Tony (a totally predictable possibility) and to replace Jason as the back up striker when they let him go.

The one thing I certainly won't agree with is the proposal to throw money at the squad. Its not what we are about and not how we came to be successful in the first place. If we brought in an experienced manager would he also be faced with a 7 game window before he faces 'failure' tags?

I have said before, that bringing in a new management team that didn't include experience was a risk - although I said that when Alex and Frankie were appointed so I have spoken rubbish before

I hear what you are saying, but what would you call a situation where before Alex left we had won 4 out of 5 games (and 39 pts out of 20 games), and as soon as Canning took charge we hit the buffers.
It's not just poor form.
Remember 2 points collected from a possible 21. Even Ross County and St Mirren, etc have a better return than that.

The decision of Canning (and Swailes) success/failure is 2 fold, one the split and two to the end of the season. I'm not suggesting for one moment, that Canning is "judged" at this point in time.

Your point regarding Alex is daft. When did Alex ever oversee a period where we lost 5 out of 7 games and only managed a draw in the other two. Not being promoted last season wouldn't have been seen by reasonable supporters as failure.

However not being able to muster a handful of points out of 13 attempts, if it happens, would be.

If you don't deem half a season as being sufficient time to gauge a manager's performance, how long are you wanting to give Canning. A whole season, 2 seasons?
Part of management is being able to problem solve. If it's only poor form and not something more deep routed, then Canning has time to turn it around.
If he can't then he's not the man for the job.

How do you know what Alex's plans would have been regarding strikers, if he was still with us. He left on 7th January. He would have had almost another month to sort that out. The loss of Tony was the responsibility of the board, no-one else.

If Canning can turn things around, no-one will be more delighted than me, and this whole subject about Canning's suitability will go away.
However, if we continue to "crash and burn" are you prepared to contemplate that Canning is perhaps not what we need?

I do feel sorry for Canning in this respect. He was put in a position where he felt he couldn't have refused the role, but this situation is of the board's making. They shouldn't have gone for another untried player/coach, in the blind hope that he'll be Alex mark II.

[redandwhite1874]

You're right its not just a loss of form - its the loss of a hugely successful manager, an equally successful coach - both of whom were an integral part of the team and club for a decade. Then add in the loss of a £1m player who was the single biggest player success of the season (yes it was a team effort but Andreu was the magic spark that propelled us up the table); add in the loss of the only real striker at the club.

I would suggest that after all that that you need to look at more than just a change of manager; you need to capture the massive change at the club, as I said the biggest in nearly 12 years, and understand it was always going to be bumpy. Its hard to take, but perhaps even harder to stick with it.

Am I prepared to accept that martin might not be the man - of course. But I am going to stand by him and support him without talking of failure after 7 games. What kind of blind faith was it by the board to select a man they knew so well as Canning? It might not be the right decision but blind faith it most certainly was not. Its not exactly gracious of you to say that if martin starts getting results you will support him - I would suggest its a wee bit harder to show that support in the days when things aren't going right.

So if martin was to go say in April - do you propose that we go out get an experienced manager, spend money on the squad and tell him he has to achieve a certain position after 15 - 17 games and if he hasn't he gets sacked ?

Hypothetical, but would results have remained great if Alex lost Frankie, MAC and Tony and the club was not able to replace them?, alongside players dipping in form?

[Park Materson]

No difficult decisions for me.CANNING out now.(0/7)

[Accies4ever]

Look, there's a middle way here.

It's not a case of me not supporting Martin. I've said time and time again that I support our own.
I've actually emailed to Martin himself on two occasions telling him that we're all behind him and we're desperate for him to succeed.
I said that if Martin turns it around, the questions over his suitability will go away, not that I'll start supporting him. That implies that I'm not supporting him now.

It's also a case that there's no way that Martin should be sacked now. That's just knee-jerk reaction.

Give Canning and his management team until the end of the season, then we'll decide if it's been a good decision to appointment him or not.
If not, then use the close season to address the problem.

Even accounting for all that you've said about Alex, Frankie and Tony and yes the significance of them can't be underestimated, to some how imply it was somehow all down to them, is a bit disrespectful to the rest of the players that did so well and are still with us.

Cards on the table. I honestly don't believe Canning has the motivational, tactical or technical know-how to be a manager. Swailes doesn't appear to be helping matters.
Give them until the end of the season to prove me wrong.
If they don't what do we do as supporters and a club at that point?

[Alexander the Great]

as soon as we cant make top six ( if it comes to that ) we should be looking for someone else immediately no point hanging it out till end of season, Dundee are on a terrific run, but nobody else has been so that's means we should still make it if we improve for the games we have took 24 points from this season ie ross county, motherwell, st johnstone and st Mirren. were still not bottom of the form league since the st johnstone game st Mirren have picked up 6 points st johnstone and county 4 points and motherwell 1 point

[Accies4ever]

Serious question to those who would not want Canning/Swailes judged in this season's performances

Q: Say we don't achieve a top 6 position finish, and we continue to gain points at the current rate of 0.33 pts per game into next season, at what point who you call for a change in management/boardroom?

[H9crx]

This is a major flaw in the clubs approach! If canning etc do not improve and we have to replace them how much dose this cost the club? 3 contract terminations and compo. If 100k on Loy is deemed to be a wast of ££ in the short term how should we feel about that wast of money.

The club have not helped Canning at this time with the poor approach to replacing vital players. This is why he was a yes man appointment.

[redandwhite1874]

Serious question to those who would not want Canning/Swailes judged in this season's performances

Q: Say we don't achieve a top 6 position finish, and we continue to gain points at the current rate of 0.33 pts per game into next season, at what point who you call for a change in management/boardroom?

Its not a question of not judging; its a question of what criteria you use and what weight you apply to each e.g. by results on the park only? by considering the massive upheaval at the club? loss of key players and staff? etc

Re your second point; football is not a science where you can say you need to achieve x points at whatever points in the season. If that was the case then each and every manager would be subject to such blunt measures. I could ask you the question back in terms of if Martin achieves top 6 what points average does he need to achieve next season and at what points in the season to stay in a job?

You clearly don't rate Martin, fair enough, but at the same time you say you are supporting him, whilst at the same time raising various scenarios about when we should get rid of him.

So if we get rid of Martin and get an experienced managed, he spends say £300k in the transfer market; what does he have to do in the first 15 games to avoid the sack; and then the next 15 etc etc ?

PS I didn't imply it was all down to certain people - however even you now state (in somewhat of a contradiction) you can't under estimate the significance of those who have left; although I find it strange that this major factor didn't feature at all in any of your earlier analysis.

[Accies4ever]

You are correct, it's not an exact science, it's more a judgement call.

However any management team must be judged at some point. To answer your question, about how I'd judge a manager (present or future). I would compare both the performance of the team (ie are we playing poorly and lucky to pick up points, or are we playing well, creating chances, but perhaps not getting the points we deserve). Also I would look at how we are points wise in comparison to similarly sized/quality teams.
If we're playing well and picking up a good number of points (like under Alex), then obviously the management team are doing well. It's a no-brainer.
However, like we are just now, playing poorly, lucky we're not getting humped, picking up hardly any points, etc---that's signs of failure (in anybody's language).
If we go into next season and it looks like we're stranded at the bottom of the league, with little chance of improvement, then that's the time to either get new players in and others out, to change tact, or dump the manager.
Exactly like Ross Co, St Mirren and Motherwell have already done.
Like you say it's not a science, but we all know when that time comes.

My basic point about the present manager is that we achieved 39pts out of 20 games before he took over, and to achieve a top 6 position (say 46 pts), requires a mere additional 7pts, from 13 games (39 pts). To not even manage that modest target (whatever turmoil has occurred), in my opinion would be failure. It would mean that we couldn't even muster an average of 0.6pts per game. That's relegation form!

Supporting a person and also considering options (if someone doesn't achieve a target), isn't a contradiction. It's good planning.
I do support our present management team, to the point when performances/results prove otherwise. The operative word being Prove.
In my heart of hearts still believe that we will get a top 6 and that Martin will be in charge next season.
Giving Canning/Swailes to the end of the season is only fair, so I'm not in the camp of "get rid now".

I 100% agree with the club that whoever is the manager, has to buy in to the club's ethos of developing young players.

I used the term "blind" faith, in reference to Martin's appointment. In retrospect that was perhaps poorly worded. It's not blind in respect that they have no idea how Martin is as a player or coach, but it is as a manager. After all what actual management experience does Martin have? (I do appreciate that could and likely was levelled at Alex).

Just to clear up what I mean by backing the manager (whoever that may be) with money.
I'm not talking about throwing money at transfer fees. I think we all know by now that Accies are not that kind of club, plus we don't have the money to do that.
Before anyone contradicts me by saying "we have millions", the club have earmarked a significant amount towards youth development and the new dome, so there isn't huge amounts left.
What I'm talking about is reviewing the wage structure for new players, to attract the kind of player that would keep us in the SPL. It doesn't have to be huge amounts.

I'm sure we all agree with the basis of youth development within the club, after all we're one of the best in Scotland at producing talented young Scots players, but we'll not survive in the SPL by simply filling the void with youth players alone.

[Accies4ever]

By the way, redandwhite1874, it's been good battling with you.

I look forward to more differences of opinion in the near future.

[Clint Aruss]

Canning was/is a fine player, but has no credentials as a manager. - because he isn't one. Billy Reid groomed Alex I think, particularly through his long periods of injury where he assisted in the dugout, and took over from him with his own version of how the game should be played. It was a success. He has gone, and I think the club has missed an opportunity to appoint someone who has genuine managerial potential, but more importantly, contacts in the industry. Gennaro Gattuso might have played for The Rangers, but he also played for Milan, and has a pedigree that cannot be questioned. Could he manage at spl level? Yes he could! Could he bring in players? Yes he could! Could he have done a job at Accies? Yes he could!
Time will tell on Canning, and we won't be relegated, but going 2 down against Aberdeen, his body language was poor, head down and trudging up to the restart was not encouraging I'm sure to the team. Will he be the manager next season? The jury is out.....but anything less than top 6 will not be appropriate given the start he had.

[Accies4ever]

Canning was/is a fine player, but has no credentials as a manager. - because he isn't one. Billy Reid groomed Alex I think, particularly through his long periods of injury where he assisted in the dugout, and took over from him with his own version of how the game should be played. It was a success. He has gone, and I think the club has missed an opportunity to appoint someone who has genuine managerial potential, but more importantly, contacts in the industry. Gennaro Gattuso might have played for The Rangers, but he also played for Milan, and has a pedigree that cannot be questioned. Could he manage at spl level? Yes he could! Could he bring in players? Yes he could! Could he have done a job at Accies? Yes he could!
Time will tell on Canning, and we won't be relegated, but going 2 down against Aberdeen, his body language was poor, head down and trudging up to the restart was not encouraging I'm sure to the team. Will he be the manager next season? The jury is out.....but anything less than top 6 will not be appropriate given the start he had.

Well said, regarding Canning. My thoughts exactly.
To not manage top 6, even accounting for all that happened over the last month or so, isn't acceptable.

However on your Gattuso point, not so sure. I just feel if we had appointed him, it would have all been about him. Plus I believe his managerial record is poor.

[Accies4ever]

Here's another point.

When Alex was given interim manager, did that not last until the close season, because the club was evaluating an unknown managerial team (Alex/Frankie).
It was an instant success, and so Alex was then given the permanent position, come the close season.

So when Martin was given the interim position and lost all games during that tenure, the reason I believe it was rushed through to make him permanent manager, was to stabilise the situation, and in my belief, push on to achieve a high league position.
So far it hasn't worked.
In hindsight, perhaps the club should have given themselves a longer period to evaluate Canning and Swailes, before making a permanent decision.

Bearing in mind both their relative inexperience in management, what they did was a gamble too far.

[Accies4ever]

Here's another point.

When Alex was given interim manager, did that not last until the close season, because the club was evaluating an unknown managerial team (Alex/Frankie).
It was an instant success, and so Alex was then given the permanent position, come the close season.

So when Martin was given the interim position and lost all games during that tenure, the reason I believe it was rushed through to make him permanent manager, was to stabilise the situation, and in my belief, push on to achieve a high league position.
So far it hasn't worked.
In hindsight, perhaps the club should have given themselves a longer period to evaluate Canning and Swailes, before making a permanent decision.

Bearing in mind both their relative inexperience in management, what they did was a gamble too far.

[Thethirdproclaimer]

So if we get rid of Martin and get an experienced managed, he spends say £300k in the transfer market; what does he have to do in the first 15 games to avoid the sack; and then the next 15 etc etc ?

An interesting point raised here, and something which goes back to what a lot of us have been saying since the first seasons in the SPL. At what point do we stop the 'Accies are just a wee team punching above their weight' nonsense? While our stock has risen in terms of improving the infrastructure (synthetic surface, 5 a side pitches, dome), youth system & coaches and our general standing in the eyes of previously ignorant media & print commentators, surely we are entitled to think the board's expectation of the manager and team performance on the pitch should rise accordingly. If a manager performs brilliantly in the first 15 games he should be praised as much as possible, but on the other side the board's goals and expectations for the next 15 should change accordingly. That's how good teams progress, and don't get lost as a 'remember that season' team (I'd much rather be an Inverness than a Queen of the South, for example).

It's my opinion that the Canning appointment was an easy option, a team of 'Accies men' is ideal in theory but when each of those men is practically untested in every area they cover how can that gamble be justified when the spending on young prospects from other teams isn't? The two aren't mutually exclusive - AN and Frankie worked because, as has been previously stated, they had a period of 'grooming' (yuck) before they were given the job full time. To think the kind of success they had could be repeated by an untried management team in the middle of a top league season is a little naive to say the least. Easy to say with hindsight, but surely a solid manager with previous experience of the top league would have been a much better, stabilising influence going forward? Allowing Canning and Imrie (while still playing) and Swailes to shadow for a lengthy period in preparation for taking the jobs over full time? I appreciate it might not be every manager's cup of tea to effectively train up a replacement for themselves, but the likes of Stuart McCall might have been able to combine that job with his Scotland duties and be quite happy with the situation.

As it is, it looks like we might have a prolonged period sliding down the league unless our form dramatically improves. There's nothing I'd like more than to see the management team prove that the 'Accies way' works every time, but if not we might be in for a bit of a struggle - it's been grim enough watching since MC took over. Hopefully the board, if there comes a time when a decision does have to be made, looks to our future as an established top-flight team with realistic goals of achieving top 6 and Europe rather than a wee team whose supporters should just be happy they've got a team to watch every week. ("It wasn't that long ago we didn't have a stadium" blah blah...)