Financial Armegeddon?

Match day discussion, transfers, and all things Accies

Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby manxaccie » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:00 am

What’s always puzzled me, as an outsider looking in, is the relationship between the likes of ronnie and les with McGowan. Considering where we were when they arrived, they have transformed the fortunes of the club, and Ronnie runs (as far as I’m aware) a successful business.

Do they put up with McGowan because they have to or is there a prior relationship?

Cheers
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:47 am

What’s always puzzled me, as an outsider looking in, is the relationship between the likes of ronnie and les with McGowan.


And that manxaccie is the million dollar question the answer to which would explain everything that goes on at that club on and off the field.

Here's what i know from perusing Companies House. The ultimate holding and controlling company of both the stadium and the football club is Edencrest. Way back in 2003 when the debt was threatening to bring the whole lot tumbling down the then Directors of Edencrest offloaded the football club and all the debt onto Ronnie and Les. Ronnie ended up with 90%+ plus of the shares in the Club for the famous £1 coin but he and les had no stake in edencrest so had no stake in the stadium.

No thats the first puzzle. Why take on all that debt without at least a stake in the stadium. My theory is that Ronnie/Les were promised a share in edencrest and thus the stadium down the line if they got rid of the debt. So they do that which is quite a feat and however we might disagree with Ronnie about onfield matters, whose manager etc., Accies fans will always owe him and Les a huge debt for this.

Eventually ronnie and les became directors and shareholders in edencrest about the time Watson passed away. In return Ronnie put all the shares of the club into the ownership of edencrest. There were then 4 directors of that company Ronnie, les, mcgowan and walter hamilton. They all held equal shares. Walter has since resigned as a director and disappeared leaving the remaining 3. The breakdown of the shareholders now is a follows. 90 shares in the name of mcgowan, 90 shares in the name of ronnie’s family and 30 shares in the name of Les.

Now Ronnie and Les have 120 shares to mcgowans 90 and are joined at the hip so why doesnt ronnie say to colin mcgowan step back from any operational control of the stadium/club focus on the panto and we will appoint a full time CEO who not only has an interest in football and the business of football but an aptitude. Overnight that club would be transformed IMO because the way I see it McGowan is the problem in terms of focusing the clubs off the field activites in a way that fails embrace the fans. However it would need a company lawyer to look at edencrest and how its set up to understand why ronnie doesnt flex his muscles and that aint going to happen.
Last edited by TerracingTomas on Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:58 am

manxaccie wrote:What’s always puzzled me, as an outsider looking in, is the relationship between the likes of ronnie and les with McGowan. Considering where we were when they arrived, they have transformed the fortunes of the club, and Ronnie runs (as far as I’m aware) a successful business.

Do they put up with McGowan because they have to or is there a prior relationship?

Cheers


In 2005 C McG was still at Raith Rovers, according to the Scotsman article timeline. If he was bought out soon after he would presumably have had funds available for re-investment elsewhere.

When did R & L buy the Club? 2003? Was there not a massive debt then? Would any new investor with real cash not be a welcome proposition a couple of years later?

There are a 'snake' of companies involved with Accies, discussed many times here, and almost impossible to know who now has the most 'clout' in each of those companies.

Ownership of Private Limited Companies often contain "strange bedfellows".
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:31 pm

In 2005 C McG was still at Raith Rovers, according to the Scotsman article timeline. If he was bought out soon after he would presumably have had funds available for re-investment elsewhere.


Porcupine I had a quick look at Edencrests’ records again and discovered that Edencrest as a company was incorporated in August 2003 and lo and behold thats when Mcgowan became a director so his involvement in edencrest predates his getting out of raith rovers. He was then appointed a director of the accies stadium company the following year 2004 but didnt become a director of the football club until 2014. By the time edencrest was set up the club was owned by Ronnie and les so Mcgowan wasnt involved technically in 2 football clubs only the stadium.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:28 pm

TT, are you saying that McG had shares in Edencrest in 1983, or was a director of it at that time?
If Edencrest owned Accies football club before McG sold his ownership of RR, could that have meant part ownership of two Scottish clubs at the same time.

However, his substantial minority shareholding that you've quoted (90), against McD's 90 & G's 30, still makes him a major obstacle to move out, should that ever be the intention. That would take a lot of cash for that to happen.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:02 pm

2003 Porcupine not 1983. Wot I’m saying is that Edencrest was set up in 2003 about the same time as the club was sold to Ronnie. Mcgowan became a director in I think August 2003. By that time Edencrest’s only assets were the stadium not the Hafc so there is no clash of interests with his involvement in Raith.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:39 pm

TerracingTomas wrote:2003 Porcupine not 1983. Wot I’m saying is that Edencrest was set up in 2003 about the same time as the club was sold to Ronnie. Mcgowan became a director in I think August 2003. By that time Edencrest’s only assets were the stadium not the Hafc so there is no clash of interests with his involvement in Raith.

:cry: :cry: typo error and no check!! Whoops.

Another "strange bedfellows syndrome" ??
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby manxaccie » Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:58 pm

Cheers for the reply.

So the previous board saddled us with McGowan and Ronnie & Less haven't been able to, or haven't wanted to, get rid of him. It would be a fascinating read/watch if the truth surrounding it all ever came out. Maybe best for Accies fans that we don't know all the ins and outs of what happens behind the scenes at board level!
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:43 pm

manxaccie wrote:So the previous board saddled us with McGowan and Ronnie & Les haven't been able to, or haven't wanted to, get rid of him.


Suspect more than a grain of truth in one part of that statement :cry:
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:53 pm

Our SLO Sean has sent a letter to Mcgowan asking for clarification of some of the issues raised by Mcgowan in his open letter. Nice one Sean but I expect you could be the ex SLO shortly!!

https://mobile.twitter.com/acciesfcslo?lang=en
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:27 pm

30 million pounds being made available to Scottish clubs by The Scottish Govt. £20 million of that to Premiership clubs by way of loans and £10 million to the lower leagues by way of grants.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/55254701
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby smc4761 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:17 pm

Excellent letter on twitter from the soon to be ex Accies SLO. Come on Sean you should know better than to ask pertinent questions that fans are looking for answers to from McGowans unhinged rant.

Will a reply be forthcoming from McGowan, I would doubt it and even if there was one he would not answer the questions anyway, just give us more waffle to pull the wool over our eyes
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:45 pm

It was a wet day here and I chanced to find a response to our SLO's letter to CMg on Accies Official Web Site dated 15 December.

Another long rambling four pager, for which you need staying power to see it to the end, IMO.

The only thing of note was the inclusion of "As for myself as CEO, a role which also encompasses financial directorship" . That gave me a lot of comfort :roll:

If you have a spare hour, then you know where to find the latest epistle.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Stevie Clarke » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:33 pm

He actually wasted several seconds typing "Darren Lyon was signed by Peterborough". Yes, he came on as sub twice and now plays in our fourth tier. No mention of losing £900,000 to a scammer due to woefully inadequate club procedures though.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:14 pm

10/10, Steve, for battling your way through the dross spouted. Talked about looking forward, but it was virtually all historical facts.

Mind you, there's a big panto coming up which will bring in £1600 to be divided up three ways. That'll make such a difference.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:36 pm

Continuing broadband problems mean I’m typing this in Costa Cofffee. No game for me on PPVTV this weekend!! Anyway it’s this comment that caught my attention

“Sean McHugh, Supporter Liaison Officer, has contacted the club on your behalf to advise of a misconception emerging within a small minority of our supporters. “

On what basis is it a SMALL MINORITY? from what I see across all the various social media platforms there is a fairly consistent view of how the club is being run but hey what do I know!
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:53 pm

Don't read too much into the phraseology of the words, TT!

No professional person would submit any public statement (or letter) which lasted more than one A4 page, unless it had to go into a second with very relevant information.

We've heard a lot about 'bubbles' in the last year. Some individual's are in their own bubbles, and it's not for Covid-19 either. :roll:
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:34 pm

From the BBC website Kilmarnock are going to apply for a million pound loan from the Scottish Governments' football fund to cover lost revenue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55730534

Killie have a couple of directors with big pockets one of whom is Billy Bowie and it appears they have been putting money in. Financially we must be in a similar position re loss of revenue even with our oft quoted lowest player budget etc. and as has been mentioned before we didnt even take in season ticket money. Only Ronnie has the big pockets compared to our other owners/directors and he has put money in when required e.g. £200,000 after the bank scam but i imagine we will be doing the same re a loan. If not then we must be in a better financial position than I think. The latest accounts (upto june 20) for Edencrest the ultimate holding company of club and stadium are available at Companies House but as they are almost identical £ for £ to the previous set of accounts you wont learn anything to our current financial position. Interesting times.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Stevie Clarke » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:36 pm

I thought every Premiership club already got a loan of around £1.6m. Is this request over and above that?
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:58 pm

The Scottish Government announced a £20 million loans package for the Scottish Premiership in December but it wasn’t an automatic pay out club’s have to apply for it which Killie obviously have decided to do. I’ve never seen any comment from Accies as to whether they have or intend to apply. The only comment has been re the stadium rent situation.
Below the Premiership there was a £10 million grant package for all other clubs which doesn’t have to be paid back. Maybe Accies haven’t applied cos it’s a loan?
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