Financial Armegeddon?

Match day discussion, transfers, and all things Accies

Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:52 pm

There is a view that the owners aren’t too concerned if we are relegated to the Championship, as it will be easier to bring our youth players through in that environment. Ronnie admitted as much at a fans forum when he said how difficult it was to develop young players in the Premiership. Despite repeated protestations from Ronnie, Les and Maitland that no, the Premiership is where they want to be its easy to buy into such a view particularly when you see what is unfolding on the pitch this season. .

However the evidence out there suggests that it makes no sense for the owners to accept relegation as it’s going contribute to a potential financial armegeddon. First off the obvious loss of match day revenue from the fans. I’m not talking about home fans, as the club seems to have discounted their financial input but the money that comes from the visits of the old firm and the likes of Hibs, Aberdeen and Motherwell. Not just gate receipts but hospitality etc. Then there’s the prize money. Even finishing 11th brings in a hell of a lot more than the Championship. Last season we got £1.18m while Ross County got £562,000 for winning the Championship. A mid table championship position gets you £225,000. Ok next season if relegated there would be a parachute payment and we would still get the UEFA payout for one season but unless we went straight back up they are gone after that one season. Then there is the revenue from advertising and sponsorship. With less exposure comes less revenue. Not allowing for the fact that our sponsors aren’t really serious financial players.

I know we have been relegated before and survived but then there is the latest and most significant nail in the financial coffin namely the rent from the North Stand that Accies get from South Lanarkshire Council. McGowan was throwing around a figure of a £300,000 loss of rental income after the Lanarkshire Joint Valuation Board said they were moving out at the end of their lease in May next year. I took that with a pinch of salt as I do with any of McGowan’s financial claims but started digging around annual reports and accounts and it turns out McGowan is right! Since 2001, South Lanarkshire Council has leased the entire North Stand from Accies. They then sub lease it to the Joint Valuation Board and to South Lanarkshire Leisure and Culture. The publicly available accounts for both bodies show the Valuation Board for year 17/18 paid the Council £318,000 annual rental. SLC Leisure and Culture for year 18/19 paid £138,000. Total £456,000. The Council will probably take a small percentage of that for an admin fee but Accies are receiving well over £400k a year in rental income and have been for nearly the last 20 years. That income has paid the mortgage on the stadium meaning income form other renters e.g. the gym, accountants and nursery pay for the upkeep of the stadium and provide a surplus.

So combine the loss of rental income and premiership status (never mind this seasons’ coved impact) and the only reason you would want to see the club relegated is if you have a potential death wish. Over to you Owners. Oh and don't kid yourself that Jamie Hamilton is going anytime soon for million. :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:41 pm

A good bit of detective work here, TT, on a wet Sunday in Scotland. (Or are you somewhere in Europe with being an hour ahead of me :D ??) It's worthy of a longish response to keep the discussion going.

I clearly remember that the original SLC North Stand rental deal was the only way that the new Stadium build was financially viable. There was significant pressure within the Council in Hamilton to ensure Accies did not fold, after the debacle of the sale of Douglas Park when all the "fees/comissions/expenses" to many sundry parties left nothing in the pot to build a new stadium, following years of ground sharing and acrimony.

The Coucil saved the day by signing a generous 20 year lease for what was needed accomodation at that time. By the expiry on 2021, Accies were assumed to have been financially managed to achieve a strong permanent financial footing. That question remains unclear, given the continuing 'snake' of companies accounts that we have discussed before on a number of occasions.

Your right in anticipating financial armageddon. The Club looks to be heading to League One, after one spell in the Championship next year. Covis has exacerbated the situation, with no income from Season Tickets (small), Gate money (small, other than Old Firm/Well), Hospitality & Sponsorship, all geared to being in the Premiership. There's no comparable meaningful income in the Championship, quite apart from Final League Position payments in whatever league Accies end up in. In addition "Working from Home" probably eliminates the needs of much of SLC's future need of vast office space for much of its staff.

We REALLY look doomed this season, with a manager who has proved no better than the last one. He seems unable to blend a team of mostly journeymen plus some talented youngsters into any consistent force. We are already cut adrift with only 7 points from a possible 39, and our defence goals lost should be frightening him. 5-4-1, BR? or 6-3-1?

Given what you've said, It looks like we are off to "nowhereland" over the next 2/3 seasons, if we even survive financially that long.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby smc4761 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:41 pm

What frustrates me is we always talk of the this wonderful youth system we have. Dont get me wrong we have had some decent players come through over the years. BUT the idea I would assume is to bring through the young players then sell them on for lots of money.

How many youngsters have we brought through over past 10 years and sold on for decent money. McCarthy, McArthur, Easton, these were about 10 years ago. Lewis Ferguson went for peanuts. I am struggling to think of anyone we have sold for decent money, Hendry??.

Looking across to our neighbours, Well, they seem to have had more success selling players on than we ever had, same could be said of other clubs as well.

If we drop down a division or 2 bringing players on will have to be way forward but I would imagine they would also go for even less money
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Stevie Clarke » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm

Did the money we got from selling Docherty and Ferguson not help keep us afloat, so soon after being conned out of nearly a million? Hendrie went for around £250k, though I think the club talked in terms of add ons that never materialised, seeing as he's now at Morecambe!
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:45 pm

That's 2/3 years ago, SC, and probably already gone in running costs. We have signed many players since then who have gone, probably having their contract paid up in full.

IMO, we have a (too) big squad for our income against the cost of all that. Even if the suggested big sponsorship deals from new start-up companies ever crystalised, then consider wages costs of our squad, whether playing or injured. Cant imagine B E's salary is less than £40K p.a but even at £25K times 25 full timers, we all can do the maths.

Convince me otherwise!
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Stevie Clarke » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:29 pm

porcupine wrote:That's 2/3 years ago, SC, and probably already gone in running costs. We have signed many players since then who have gone, probably having their contract paid up in full.

IMO, we have a (too) big squad for our income against the cost of all that. Even if the suggested big sponsorship deals from new start-up companies ever crystalised, then consider wages costs of our squad, whether playing or injured. Cant imagine B E's salary is less than £40K p.a but even at £25K times 25 full timers, we all can do the maths.

Convince me otherwise!


Sorry, that was a bit of poor wording, I was really answering smc's point about selling players for decent cash. The £1m+ league cash will probably keep us going this season but after that...I agree with TT's post.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby smc4761 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:51 pm

sorry guys I forgot about Docherty £600 000 ?

Cant think of anyone else
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:13 pm

Cant think of anyone else


We got a reported £80,000 from Aberdeen for Devlin who was a youth product and we are supposed to have got another £25,000 add on when he got his first Scotland cap but there isn’t any other youth product transfer fee that I can think of.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:27 pm

smc4761 wrote:sorry guys I forgot about Docherty £600 000 ?

Cant think of anyone else


Remember, we sold him because we had just been scammed for a million quid, so there was already a shortfall in any liquid funds of around £400K :oops: :oops: :oops:

Don't know whether the Hull City deal gave us anything else from what was reputed by Ronnie to be a sell-on clause of 20%.

Still think we are financially flucked after at least one relegation most likely at the end of the season. TT's original synopsis stands firm IMO. :cry:
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:55 pm

Somebody’s getting desperate

https://www.hamiltonacciesfc.co.uk/hafc ... w_dQo-Guo8

Once he's made a plea for the Joint Valuation Board to change its mind and renew its lease Mcgowan goes onto to say but if you don’t, gone give us £299,000 as a kind of good will gesture. :lol: :lol: :lol:

There is a body called Audit Scotland They have the responsibility of seeing that public sector bodies spend their monies properly. Im pretty sure if the JVB was daft enough to do this Audit scotland would take legal action against the councillors. All Mcgowan does in this letter is show a lack of business sense and offer an almost ‘Trump' alternative reality.

Not surprisingly there is a hint that the club’s future is at stake. Only a matter of time before that surfaced. What next a threat to build flats on the pitch :roll: :roll:
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby aldoaccie » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:52 pm

I wrote very similar drivel whilst studying law at Uni. Subject that i hated, couldn’t get to the word count and yet hoped to attain the 40% pass mark.

In days gone by we would have applauded our Directorship on taking a firm stand (pardon the pun) against the larger oppressor, but with this work, that clearly plagiarises articles by a.n.other after a google search, he embarrasses our club’s name. The lease is expiring and they aren’t renewing. Simple as that. Move on and don’t alienate a party who could be a future thorn in our side.

Coming soon to a billboard near you:-
“Persimmon development, New Douglas Park, Hamilton. Selling fast”.
Nothing would surprise me with this Board.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Yummy Fur » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:21 pm

aldoaccie wrote:Coming soon to a billboard near you:-
“Persimmon development, New Douglas Park, Hamilton. Selling fast”.
Nothing would surprise me with this Board.


What in this Board's past actions or record leads you to that conclusion? Genuinely interested.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:48 pm

Not the Boards past actions Yummy Fur but Mcgowans past actions. When he had a stake in Raith Rovers and it was all going pear shaped financially, he publicly made the threat that if he didn’t get bought out he would see Starks Park turned into a housing development. He was bought out and reinvested in Hamilton during the Watson era and the rest is history. He hints at the clubs future prospects in his rant and nothing would surprise me if he makes similar threats however unrealistic further down the line.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/starks-p ... or-2475589
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Yummy Fur » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:41 am

TerracingTomas wrote:Not the Boards past actions Yummy Fur but Mcgowans past actions. When he had a stake in Raith Rovers and it was all going pear shaped financially, he publicly made the threat that if he didn’t get bought out he would see Starks Park turned into a housing development. He was bought out and reinvested in Hamilton during the Watson era and the rest is history. He hints at the clubs future prospects in his rant and nothing would surprise me if he makes similar threats however unrealistic further down the line.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/starks-p ... or-2475589


A threat made but never carried out nearly 16 years ago versus 10 out of the last 12 seasons in the top division.

Does our support really think we've under achieved with the current board?
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Plump Larkyaccie HAW » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:43 am

Yummy Fur wrote:
TerracingTomas wrote:Not the Boards past actions Yummy Fur but Mcgowans past actions. When he had a stake in Raith Rovers and it was all going pear shaped financially, he publicly made the threat that if he didn’t get bought out he would see Starks Park turned into a housing development. He was bought out and reinvested in Hamilton during the Watson era and the rest is history. He hints at the clubs future prospects in his rant and nothing would surprise me if he makes similar threats however unrealistic further down the line.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/starks-p ... or-2475589


A threat made but never carried out nearly 16 years ago versus 10 out of the last 12 seasons in the top division.

Does our support really think we've under achieved with the current board?


The fitba board has done wonders thanks to Sir Ronald & Leslie over the years and the fans should be grateful for what these great guys have done for the fitba club. Over on the other side is a different kettle a fish. The stadium company, the landlord, the ceo, the madman who threatened another clubs ground with bulldozers. Its been one mess after another lately from the landlord. Missing/stolen million quid but it wiz the banks fault now its the council fault for leaving a tenancy to move into there own house. The statement is a rambling mess wrote by a rambling madman. The fitba club owner are probably shaking the heads again thinking ffs Colin just stop it yer making an arse of yersel again. Using Hamilton Academical football club as a sob story for his own mess is the sign of a worried man. Its only a matter of time before our ground is threatened with the bulldozers.

HAW
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:11 pm

The latest in relation to Mcgowans’ tirade last night. The following has been posted on the clubs’ twitter account.

Last night a draft letter was posted on our website that wasn’t yet finalised.

We thank the amazing spell c̲h̲e̲q̲u̲e̲r̲s̲ Rolling on the floor laughing ..for pointing that out. Man facepalming

It’s your attention to detail that will help make this club great again.


Is it just me that thinks Ronnie has blown a fuse and had the post taken down. But to post that response is so so bizarre. Really worrying times about the direction this club is taking and the truly shambolic and amateur operation of the ‘business’.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:07 pm

[quote="Plump Larkyaccie HAW"
The statement is a rambling mess wrote by a rambling madman. [quote]

You may say that... I couldn't possibly comment.

However.....

For any senior executive, time management is critical, and recipients of correspondence prefer to see a well constructed letter with 'bullet points' listed (if possible) on an single A4 page.

Business practices have moved on light years, from twenty years ago, and processes have become far less labour intensive, quite apart from Covid-19 proving that many employees can successfully work from home, bringing significant benefits to both employer & employee. Those companies that fail to recognise or plan for constant change, are doomed to fail.

SLC & LJVB are entitled to vacate any premises they currently rent, at the end of their lease period. Those dates would always be known to both parties, and would have been open for negotiation way before their exit dates. Any tenant wishing to leave at the end of his/her/their contract, is under no obligation to sign another lease.

Council policy can (continue to) be carried out by them in any premise that suits them. Is there any suggestion that SLC are not going to continue their statutory/ social obligations just because they will not be using the existing rented accomodation at NDP?

Those running Local Authorities/ Govenment Agencies have a legal obligation to ensure financial prudence with the funds under their control. Whilst this should also be the case in the Private Sector, there are still some companies trading, whose accounting practices & controls have been less than satisfactory, and which lead to eventual financial collapse. If LJVB are able to find alternative premises for less that the current £12p.sq.ft than they have been recently paying (or paid for the last 20 years?) then they must consider doing so without any emotive distractions in their decision making process.
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby Big Wurzil » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:53 pm

Bang on,

Was discussing the same with mrs wurzil only the other day. She's been working from home since march and her company looking to drop office space and ultimately buildings.

SLC not any different
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby TerracingTomas » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:01 am

Revised statement back on club website. Still the same naive rambling diatribe that ends with a plea for 299,000 if your not going to renew your lease. As an example of business acumen it’s up there with having with having a bank account that only requires one signature. :oops: :cry: :oops:
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Re: Financial Armegeddon?

Postby porcupine » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:13 am

Life's too short, TT, to attempt to read it again. I rest my case.
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