Just how appalling is Cannings record

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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby PrideOfLanarkshire » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:37 am

Willie Wastle wrote:
porcupine wrote:Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.

That's a bit personal!

I find it incredible that anyone with work and family commitments could have gone last night. A dark, cold wintry night. Minimum 6 hour journey time round trip, and an outlay of at least £50 per person, before paying for any refreshment. And especially given that it was Pittodrie, and we had only hope, not expectation of any result.

I spent the evening not in my armchair, but supervising my son and his pal going out guising, and bagging and distributing sweets to the dozens of trick-or-treaters that came to our door. Halloween, you know?

I get to as many games as I can, but last night was never going to be a possibility. However, as a lifelong Accies fan, I reserve the right to express my opinion about the team, the club and the way it's run - and nobody who was lucky enough (?) to be there last night has an opinion that carries any greater weight.


Apologies, my emotions where high when typing that.

I feel my post still stands though.

There are not enough realists on here, everyone is either positive or negative.. nobody sits in the middle and see's whats really going on.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby PrideOfLanarkshire » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:38 am

Yummy Fur wrote:
PrideOfLanarkshire wrote:
Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.


Correct, people having different opinions really ruins these types of forums.


It's past the point people have opinions, they are more like agendas.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Willie Wastle » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:09 pm

Tumbleweed.. wrote:As I said in another thread, those who believe Canning is the best man for the job would point to the lack of immediate success when clubs like Dundee or Thistle or whoever change manager and sure enough that has happened, so if you look at success at Accies being simply and singularly surviving in the top league then Canning has done what he has been asked. Terrific.

However, if this is the sole measure of success then it seems remarkably short sighted. I genuinely don't think Accies fans believe we are going to win the league, any cup or qualify for Europe as one poster, in a remarkable display of dismissive arrogance, alleges, but the basics for me are that we go and try and win every game and care if it doesn't happen. Canning confirmed again that this isn't the case by his inane comments last night and it bloody well should be.

We are not getting better, we are not getting future supporters enthused and the rubbish we see most weeks just kills any hope of increasing our crowds. I do ask myself why I care when its clear that the club don't need supporters to survive financially at the moment, however when we go down, and we will sooner or later, Les and Ronnie will look round for people to help and there wont be many people left who care. If they are fitba' men, as Les in particular likes to portray, they must be asking why our much heralded prolonged stay in the top flight has cost us so many fans. In fact, maybe Cannings admirers could answer that question just now. I am genuinely interested.

I don't want this to become more adversarial than it already is, but if ever a post was "a remarkable display of dismissive arrogance", this is it.

• Sarcastic about the club's greatest success in living memory - "terrific".

• Using a straw man argument - if you don't think Martin Canning should be immediately sacked you're an "admirer" and think he's "the best man for the job".

• Misrepresenting opposing views - I didn't talk about us winning anything, but "challenging".

I agree that staying up shouldn't be the only measure of success, but nor should it be underestimated. Our first priority is SPL survival. We play the best teams in Scotland week-in, week-out, so of course we struggle in a lot of those games. We'd all like to win more, so let's suppose we do - what would that look like?

If we won 5 or 6 more games over the season, we'd be 6th or 7th in the league, or, as I put it, challenging for the top six. That would be a huge step up, but it's the next step, if we're to continue to progress. Can we do it? Ronnie and his associates have carried us this far, with their distinctive approach, so why not further?

Many of us had high hopes in the summer. After all that happened last season - the financial fraud; losing more than half a team, including our best players, Docherty and Templeton; Devlin and Ferguson leaving for buttons; only avoiding the play-off on goal difference - we had no real right to expect anything. But the most vigorous recruitment I've ever known at Accies raised expectations. Sadly too many of the recruits have too quickly turned out to be duds, but if we can shape a new team out of the best of them plus the youth coming through, and stay up, that'll amount to a good season. Even if our current win rate doesn't improve.

Maybe in order to push on to the next level we'll need a new manager. Easier said than done. Who knows who? But I'm not in favour of jettisoning one of our most loyal servants of the last decade, who's currently fulfilling his brief.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:17 pm

Willie Wastle wrote:
Tumbleweed.. wrote:As I said in another thread, those who believe Canning is the best man for the job would point to the lack of immediate success when clubs like Dundee or Thistle or whoever change manager and sure enough that has happened, so if you look at success at Accies being simply and singularly surviving in the top league then Canning has done what he has been asked. Terrific.

However, if this is the sole measure of success then it seems remarkably short sighted. I genuinely don't think Accies fans believe we are going to win the league, any cup or qualify for Europe as one poster, in a remarkable display of dismissive arrogance, alleges, but the basics for me are that we go and try and win every game and care if it doesn't happen. Canning confirmed again that this isn't the case by his inane comments last night and it bloody well should be.

We are not getting better, we are not getting future supporters enthused and the rubbish we see most weeks just kills any hope of increasing our crowds. I do ask myself why I care when its clear that the club don't need supporters to survive financially at the moment, however when we go down, and we will sooner or later, Les and Ronnie will look round for people to help and there wont be many people left who care. If they are fitba' men, as Les in particular likes to portray, they must be asking why our much heralded prolonged stay in the top flight has cost us so many fans. In fact, maybe Cannings admirers could answer that question just now. I am genuinely interested.

I don't want this to become more adversarial than it already is, but if ever a post was "a remarkable display of dismissive arrogance", this is it.

• Sarcastic about the club's greatest success in living memory - "terrific".

• Using a straw man argument - if you don't think Martin Canning should be immediately sacked you're an "admirer" and think he's "the best man for the job".

• Misrepresenting opposing views - I didn't talk about us winning anything, but "challenging".

I agree that staying up shouldn't be the only measure of success, but nor should it be underestimated. Our first priority is SPL survival. We play the best teams in Scotland week-in, week-out, so of course we struggle in a lot of those games. We'd all like to win more, so let's suppose we do - what would that look like?

If we won 5 or 6 more games over the season, we'd be 6th or 7th in the league, or, as I put it, challenging for the top six. That would be a huge step up, but it's the next step, if we're to continue to progress. Can we do it? Ronnie and his associates have carried us this far, with their distinctive approach, so why not further?

Many of us had high hopes in the summer. After all that happened last season - the financial fraud; losing more than half a team, including our best players, Docherty and Templeton; Devlin and Ferguson leaving for buttons; only avoiding the play-off on goal difference - we had no real right to expect anything. But the most vigorous recruitment I've ever known at Accies raised expectations. Sadly too many of the recruits have too quickly turned out to be duds, but if we can shape a new team out of the best of them plus the youth coming through, and stay up, that'll amount to a good season. Even if our current win rate doesn't improve.

Maybe in order to push on to the next level we'll need a new manager. Easier said than done. Who knows who? But I'm not in favour of jettisoning one of our most loyal servants of the last decade, who's currently fulfilling his brief.


Dear oh dear WW, the mask slips eh?

Why did you assume it was you I was talking about when I mentioned dismissive arrogance? If my post was arrogant for disagreeing with you, you must have a very different meaning of that word than me.

So just to make my earlier post clear for you, I used the word terrific to clarify that if survival was the only criteria for success then Canning had done terrifically. I then quite clearly explained why I thought that should not be the only criteria, which you yourself agreed with in the quoted post - so make up your mind, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me???

You quite clearly are an admirer of Canning, so I'm not sure how that bit offends you (straw man? really?) - you make this point in the last line of the above post and a quick trawl of your previous posts show this to be the case. I don't happen to be an admirer of the way he is doing his job when in the main results, performances, statistics and the evidence of my own eyes tells me something different, but you think otherwise, so bully for you.

If you think that the majority of Accies fans expect us to be winning/challenging in the ways you mention, then that is not my experience or my expectations, which I outlined previously and which are quite clearly not the same as Cannings, after his comments following the Aberdeen game.

And as for Canning being one of our most loyal servants, I am not arguing that he doesn't fit that description. Why that would mean he should not be criticised, or that I or any other fan should not think he should be replaced, or jettisoned as you put it, is hard to fathom.

I didn't think it was all that difficult to understand, but you clearly felt sufficiently irritated by my post to respond in the fashion that you did, however it is interesting to note that in all your criticisms of what I said that you didnt even try to explain why our 'greatest success in living memory' has resulted in so many fans deciding that its not for them and simply not returning, which was the question I asked of Cannings admirers. Is that because you can't?

Finally, I have waited weeks for you to make the 'very clear defence' of Canning you mentioned after the Hibs game. Please tell me the above response wasn't it.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Willie Wastle » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:30 am

Disingenuous, Tumbelweed. Everyone and their granny knows you meant me.

If you didn't mean "terrific" to be sarcastic, then I withdraw that, but that's all.

I should have known better than to respond to a thread with a title like this ("when did you stop beating your wife?") but I got sucked in when someone got personal about me. Enough.

You'll get your defence of Martin Canning, but not in the context of an angry thread like this.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby smc4761 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:13 pm

This is not an angry thread as such, it is quite simply the facts. 5 wins in 28 games is appalling, and I fail to see how anyone can defend that record. Even the teams he has won against this year, Ross County, relegated, St Mirren, just promoted and twice against the Well.

I dont expect us to be beating Celtic, Rangers, Hibs etc week in week out but I would like the team to at least compete. Our rivals/equivalents, Dundee, St MIrren, St Johnstone, Livingston, I would however like to see the team not only competing but at least winning some of these games

No one can doubt Martins loyalty to the club it is admirable, but bottom line is, either he cant motivate the team, learn from mistake (how many goals do we lose from set pieces, how many times have we chucked away a lead)

Has the team improved under Martin. NO. Is the fan base growing. NO. Are we playing decent football NO

Just how bad does it have to get before fans finally say enough is enough
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Willie Wastle » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:19 pm

Where is everyone tonight?

All out celebrating? :P
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:28 pm

Willie Wastle wrote:Disingenuous, Tumbelweed. Everyone and their granny knows you meant me.

If you didn't mean "terrific" to be sarcastic, then I withdraw that, but that's all.

I should have known better than to respond to a thread with a title like this ("when did you stop beating your wife?") but I got sucked in when someone got personal about me. Enough.

You'll get your defence of Martin Canning, but not in the context of an angry thread like this.



Deflect. Deflect. Deflect. And if you cant think of anything to back your point of view up, deflect some more. I am not sure why you thought domestic violence was appropriate to reference in a discussion about Martin Canning, as it really seems a bit strange and inappropriate.

As for the game today, we got lucky, which was nice, but I don't think it was much of a stride forward for Canning and his somewhat bewildering tactics. You will disagree no doubt. His appalling record has largely been unaffected by todays game but I am glad you think posting quickly after a game is a moral triumph, given some of us have long distances to travel home after actually going to games. But well done speedy.

I am going to say no more on this thread as it is clear you lack the necessary ability to either answer the question I asked after Wednesday's performance or mount a defence of Canning now, instead you yet again say you will defend him at some unspecified point in the future. I can pretty much imagine what you will say after all, so I can only speculate as to why you can't do it at the moment. Anyway, good luck in the future and have a Merry Christmas when it comes.
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