Just how appalling is Cannings record

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Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby smc4761 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:26 pm

Had a look on the BBC website for the game today and saw some stats on there which do not make good reading

Rangers have won all eight of their visits to Hamilton in the Scottish Premiership by an aggregate score of 19-7.. So why anyone thinks we have a chance today is beyond me. Agreed that Rangers have not won away in league this season, then again Dundee had not won a game until they came to Hamilton

So I dug a little bit deeper, how is Cannings record in 2018. Look away now for those of a nervous disposition

Since January until last week played 25 league games, 19 defeats, 1 draw and 5 wins. The 5 wins have been Motherwell twice, Ross County twice, who got relegated and St Midden, who have just come up. Oh and the draw was also against Ross County.

So our glorious leader has a win ration of 20% which is even lower than it has been, previously it was around 23%

Total respect to you guys that go every week and watch this clown coming out week after week with feeble excuses. After today, we have Killie then Aberdeen, can anyone see us getting anything from them by which time his win percentage will drop below 20%. I do not recall any manager ever surviving that poor level of performance, with the possible exception of Brechin manager last season.

How bad does it have to get before the board see the light. Fans voting with their feet
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Swift Frank » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:47 pm

What does it matter how bad his record is?
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby smc4761 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:21 pm

How bad does it have to get before the clown is shown the door

Since start of year league games played 28 won 5, so around 18% win ratio

Home game against Livi on Saturday should bring his record to Pl 29 won 5. At this rate he will be down to 10% win rate by Christmas
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Swift Frank » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:52 pm

Totally irrelevant.
Martin is doing a great job and deserves to be the manager indefinitely as he is a really nice guy and makes a great job of washing Les and Ronnie's cars.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby porcupine » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:15 am

MC's record IS appalling, but, remember he is only expecetd to beat the three other teams that are always down there with us, season after season. If he does that, then his job is safe. The fact that as supporters, we see far too many dire games home and away, seems irrelevant to the BOD.

Again, this season, IF we win our six pointers against St Miiren, Dundee, and AnOther FC, then we are likely to survive once more. The fact that we lost against Dundee, (who looked horrendous tonight) does not make the above a certainty, however.

We have a nucleus of reasonably good players but the manager seems inacapable of motivating and man-managing them, and often alienating them with his strange substitutions. e.g. Ziggy, Brustad??

Until we are relegated to the Championship, MC will remain in charge, as it looks to be an impossibility for him to recognise his own deficiences and do a 'Billy Reid'.

Meantime, season ticket sales fall, PATG income falls, crowds dwindle, and young fresh supporters don't want to come back to see regular defeats.

Now the Saturday game (against one of our expected four fighting for survival :lol: :lol: ) will be most interesting, given no Daz or Dougie.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:36 am

porcupine wrote: Meantime, season ticket sales fall, PATG income falls, crowds dwindle, and young fresh supporters don't want to come back to see regular defeats.


This is the crux of the matter for me. We used to have very, very few fans. Then we went walkabout for a decade and had no fans. Then we had some fans for a wee while. Then Canning was appointed, the crowds on the most part declined and then, like tonight, we have no fans again. BUT. We get 2500 for an u19s tie which tells you that there is some affection/connection with the club from people who are attracted by success or something different, not the same old same old we are treated to most weeks that has driven so many people away. I know the free entry was appealing and a great effort by the club, but it shows fans, real or prospective, are there, we just need to get them to come back to watch the first team - unfortunately this is and has been a chore rather than a pleasure for some time.

We may be in the top league for an extended period, but the crowd figures are undeniable - people are not interested in watching the rubbish getting served up most weeks and as the BoD backed Canning with an overhaul of the squad in the summer, I'm afraid to say that its clear and obvious he's just not up to it. I know people will say changing a manager doesn't bring guaranteed success, just look at Dundee, but the truth is that scores of former diehards have walked away because of Canning and the dreadful football we see most weeks.

He has won on average 1 in 4 games since he took over. He has therefore not won on average 3 in 4 games. His supporters can say he's kept us up and he obviously has, but less and less people care and more and more people refuse to pay a lot of money to be regularly dissatisfied. Dress it up any way you want but that is the brutal truth. It is undeniable.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby TerracingTomas » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:47 am

The bottom line Tumbleweed is he is going nowhere. He will still be manager when we go down to the championship. Even if for some reason Ronnie did change him it will be another internal. I’ve just listened to cannings post match interview. Effectively he says these games dont matter I.e. Hibs,Rangers, Aberdeen. “We will be judged against the likes of Livingston” As for Dougie sending off apparently he was tired so it affected his judgement :oops: And anyway there are plenty of other boys waiting their chance to come in. He is living in alternative universe.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:18 am

If only we'd known that tonight didn't matter, none of the 40 odd traveling support would have made the effort or spent the money we did !!

This line about diddy teams not being judged in games against good teams has always done my head in at any level and not just because it is a Canning favourite. Surely if wee diddy teams went into such games thinking positively and making the effort to win then they might just sneak something and get one or three points, meaning they would then have more points if successful than the other diddy teams who just disregard those fixtures !! I think it is a cowards mindset, why not have a go and you just might get something rather than accepting the inevitable defeat. Winning at Ibrox and Celtic Park in recent years has shown that sometimes we can do it, but we certainly wont if we accept defeat before we even start, like tonight.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Swift Frank » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:33 am

Pub team mentality from a Pub team manager.
When Livingston turn us over surely he will fall on his sword?
Don't be silly,what am I thinking?
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby smc4761 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:27 am

Tumbleweed.. wrote:
porcupine wrote: Meantime, season ticket sales fall, PATG income falls, crowds dwindle, and young fresh supporters don't want to come back to see regular defeats.


This is the crux of the matter for me. We used to have very, very few fans. Then we went walkabout for a decade and had no fans. Then we had some fans for a wee while. Then Canning was appointed, the crowds on the most part declined and then, like tonight, we have no fans again. BUT. We get 2500 for an u19s tie which tells you that there is some affection/connection with the club from people who are attracted by success or something different, not the same old same old we are treated to most weeks that has driven so many people away. I know the free entry was appealing and a great effort by the club, but it shows fans, real or prospective, are there, we just need to get them to come back to watch the first team - unfortunately this is and has been a chore rather than a pleasure for some time.

We may be in the top league for an extended period, but the crowd figures are undeniable - people are not interested in watching the rubbish getting served up most weeks and as the BoD backed Canning with an overhaul of the squad in the summer, I'm afraid to say that its clear and obvious he's just not up to it. I know people will say changing a manager doesn't bring guaranteed success, just look at Dundee, but the truth is that scores of former diehards have walked away because of Canning and the dreadful football we see most weeks.

He has won on average 1 in 4 games since he took over. He has therefore not won on average 3 in 4 games. His supporters can say he's kept us up and he obviously has, but less and less people care and more and more people refuse to pay a lot of money to be regularly dissatisfied. Dress it up any way you want but that is the brutal truth. It is undeniable.



Just about perfectly sums up my thoughts

His win rate is actually nearer the 1 in 5 games and this year 2018 it is even worse than that

I feel sorry for those poor souls who travelled to Aberdeen last night, spent a lot of money then Canning comes out with his cr ap in post match interview.No wonder folks are being driven away
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby PrideOfLanarkshire » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:48 am

Tumbleweed.. wrote:
porcupine wrote: Meantime, season ticket sales fall, PATG income falls, crowds dwindle, and young fresh supporters don't want to come back to see regular defeats.


This is the crux of the matter for me. We used to have very, very few fans. Then we went walkabout for a decade and had no fans. Then we had some fans for a wee while. Then Canning was appointed, the crowds on the most part declined and then, like tonight, we have no fans again. BUT. We get 2500 for an u19s tie which tells you that there is some affection/connection with the club from people who are attracted by success or something different, not the same old same old we are treated to most weeks that has driven so many people away. I know the free entry was appealing and a great effort by the club, but it shows fans, real or prospective, are there, we just need to get them to come back to watch the first team - unfortunately this is and has been a chore rather than a pleasure for some time.

We may be in the top league for an extended period, but the crowd figures are undeniable - people are not interested in watching the rubbish getting served up most weeks and as the BoD backed Canning with an overhaul of the squad in the summer, I'm afraid to say that its clear and obvious he's just not up to it. I know people will say changing a manager doesn't bring guaranteed success, just look at Dundee, but the truth is that scores of former diehards have walked away because of Canning and the dreadful football we see most weeks.

He has won on average 1 in 4 games since he took over. He has therefore not won on average 3 in 4 games. His supporters can say he's kept us up and he obviously has, but less and less people care and more and more people refuse to pay a lot of money to be regularly dissatisfied. Dress it up any way you want but that is the brutal truth. It is undeniable.


Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Bomber Harris » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:32 am

porcupine wrote:MC's record IS appalling, but, remember he is only expecetd to beat the three other teams that are always down there with us, season after season. If he does that, then his job is safe. The fact that as supporters, we see far too many dire games home and away, seems irrelevant to the BOD.

Again, this season, IF we win our six pointers against St Miiren, Dundee, and AnOther FC, then we are likely to survive once more. The fact that we lost against Dundee, (who looked horrendous tonight) does not make the above a certainty, however.

We have a nucleus of reasonably good players but the manager seems inacapable of motivating and man-managing them, and often alienating them with his strange substitutions. e.g. Ziggy, Brustad??

Until we are relegated to the Championship, MC will remain in charge, as it looks to be an impossibility for him to recognise his own deficiences and do a 'Billy Reid'.

Meantime, season ticket sales fall, PATG income falls, crowds dwindle, and young fresh supporters don't want to come back to see regular defeats.

Now the Saturday game (against one of our expected four fighting for survival :lol: :lol: ) will be most interesting, given no Daz or Dougie.


He has already lost to the worst team in the league
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby porcupine » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:41 pm

PrideOfLanarkshire wrote:
Tumbleweed.. wrote:
porcupine wrote: Meantime, season ticket sales fall, PATG income falls, crowds dwindle, and young fresh supporters don't want to come back to see regular defeats.


This is the crux of the matter for me. We used to have very, very few fans. Then we went walkabout for a decade and had no fans. Then we had some fans for a wee while. Then Canning was appointed, the crowds on the most part declined and then, like tonight, we have no fans again. BUT. We get 2500 for an u19s tie which tells you that there is some affection/connection with the club from people who are attracted by success or something different, not the same old same old we are treated to most weeks that has driven so many people away. I know the free entry was appealing and a great effort by the club, but it shows fans, real or prospective, are there, we just need to get them to come back to watch the first team - unfortunately this is and has been a chore rather than a pleasure for some time.

We may be in the top league for an extended period, but the crowd figures are undeniable - people are not interested in watching the rubbish getting served up most weeks and as the BoD backed Canning with an overhaul of the squad in the summer, I'm afraid to say that its clear and obvious he's just not up to it. I know people will say changing a manager doesn't bring guaranteed success, just look at Dundee, but the truth is that scores of former diehards have walked away because of Canning and the dreadful football we see most weeks.

He has won on average 1 in 4 games since he took over. He has therefore not won on average 3 in 4 games. His supporters can say he's kept us up and he obviously has, but less and less people care and more and more people refuse to pay a lot of money to be regularly dissatisfied. Dress it up any way you want but that is the brutal truth. It is undeniable.


Spot on.


Yes, Tumbleweed, a really accurate summary. I know of one season ticket non-renewal due to just that. There must be plenty more, and a poor result this Saturday (for whatever pathetic excuses) is all we need.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Willie Wastle » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:41 pm

porcupine wrote:Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.

That's a bit personal!

I find it incredible that anyone with work and family commitments could have gone last night. A dark, cold wintry night. Minimum 6 hour journey time round trip, and an outlay of at least £50 per person, before paying for any refreshment. And especially given that it was Pittodrie, and we had only hope, not expectation of any result.

I spent the evening not in my armchair, but supervising my son and his pal going out guising, and bagging and distributing sweets to the dozens of trick-or-treaters that came to our door. Halloween, you know?

I get to as many games as I can, but last night was never going to be a possibility. However, as a lifelong Accies fan, I reserve the right to express my opinion about the team, the club and the way it's run - and nobody who was lucky enough (?) to be there last night has an opinion that carries any greater weight.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:20 pm

Willie Wastle wrote:
porcupine wrote:Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.

That's a bit personal!

I find it incredible that anyone with work and family commitments could have gone last night. A dark, cold wintry night. Minimum 6 hour journey time round trip, and an outlay of at least £50 per person, before paying for any refreshment. And especially given that it was Pittodrie, and we had only hope, not expectation of any result.

I spent the evening not in my armchair, but supervising my son and his pal going out guising, and bagging and distributing sweets to the dozens of trick-or-treaters that came to our door. Halloween, you know?

I get to as many games as I can, but last night was never going to be a possibility. However, as a lifelong Accies fan, I reserve the right to express my opinion about the team, the club and the way it's run - and nobody who was lucky enough (?) to be there last night has an opinion that carries any greater weight.



Personal it may well have been but as you are unfailingly positive and non-critical, despite everything we have watched, do you believe Canning is doing a good job?
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Yummy Fur » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:48 pm

PrideOfLanarkshire wrote:
Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.


Correct, people having different opinions really ruins these types of forums.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Willie Wastle » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:52 pm

Tumbleweed.. wrote:
Willie Wastle wrote:
porcupine wrote:Spot on.

It's frustrating as folk like Willie Wastle who no doubt has sat on his arm chair all night will come on here and tell folk who have traveled up there and witnessed that performance that Canning is doing a good job.

That's a bit personal!

I find it incredible that anyone with work and family commitments could have gone last night. A dark, cold wintry night. Minimum 6 hour journey time round trip, and an outlay of at least £50 per person, before paying for any refreshment. And especially given that it was Pittodrie, and we had only hope, not expectation of any result.

I spent the evening not in my armchair, but supervising my son and his pal going out guising, and bagging and distributing sweets to the dozens of trick-or-treaters that came to our door. Halloween, you know?

I get to as many games as I can, but last night was never going to be a possibility. However, as a lifelong Accies fan, I reserve the right to express my opinion about the team, the club and the way it's run - and nobody who was lucky enough (?) to be there last night has an opinion that carries any greater weight.



Personal it may well have been but as you are unfailingly positive and non-critical, despite everything we have watched, do you believe Canning is doing a good job?

I do try to be positive, but not "unfailingly", and if you read my posts you'll find plenty of criticism. I just don't buy the facile argument that changing the head coach cures all.

Martin Canning has a thankless task with many of the fans. I don't know what their expectations are, but it seems like nothing short of top six, challenging for trophies and Europe will satisfy some.

Is Martin doing a good job? It depends how you measure it. If keeping us up in the top flight four years in a row - a post-war club record - is a good job, then yes. We've been on a run of five tough fixtures, and some said we'd take nothing from them, but we got a point at Killie and could have had more. Next up is a game most will be looking for us to win, regardless of Livi's excellent start to the season. Martin himself has said the result on Saturday is one that really matters. So let's see how we do - although I can't help feeling we go into it with one hand tied behind our back, with Daz and Dougie's suspensions,
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby TerracingTomas » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:24 pm

You are right to point out that changing managers doesn’t necessarily bring about the desired effect. Neither st Mirren or Dundee, or Falkirk are showing the benefits yet. To be fair to McIntyre I think he has only had 3 games. And all 3 managers have inherited poor squads. But I’m sorry I no longer care, the tactics, the football, and the patter have worn me down. The potential positives of a managerial change outweighs the negatives imo. But as I’ve said repeatedly the most depressing thing is I can’t see it happening. Ronnie strikes me as someone who thinks he knows more about football than the rest of us (maybe he does!) and rode out the ‘storm’ last season and will do so this one even if it’s relegation.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Tumbleweed.. » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:27 pm

As I said in another thread, those who believe Canning is the best man for the job would point to the lack of immediate success when clubs like Dundee or Thistle or whoever change manager and sure enough that has happened, so if you look at success at Accies being simply and singularly surviving in the top league then Canning has done what he has been asked. Terrific.

However, if this is the sole measure of success then it seems remarkably short sighted. I genuinely don't think Accies fans believe we are going to win the league, any cup or qualify for Europe as one poster, in a remarkable display of dismissive arrogance, alleges, but the basics for me are that we go and try and win every game and care if it doesn't happen. Canning confirmed again that this isn't the case by his inane comments last night and it bloody well should be.

We are not getting better, we are not getting future supporters enthused and the rubbish we see most weeks just kills any hope of increasing our crowds. I do ask myself why I care when its clear that the club don't need supporters to survive financially at the moment, however when we go down, and we will sooner or later, Les and Ronnie will look round for people to help and there wont be many people left who care. If they are fitba' men, as Les in particular likes to portray, they must be asking why our much heralded prolonged stay in the top flight has cost us so many fans. In fact, maybe Cannings admirers could answer that question just now. I am genuinely interested.
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Re: Just how appalling is Cannings record

Postby Swift Frank » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:25 am

100% spot on.
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